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--- Log opened Wed May 08 00:00:32 2002
--- Day changed Wed May 08 2002
00:00 < d3mian> ping Mike1
00:00 < d3mian> :)
00:00 < esden> no ... I will not write the email ...
00:00 -!- d3mian [~jonvargas@208.165.55.137] has quit (Client Quit)
00:00 < esden> I prefere to talk to clifford first ...
00:01 * Mike1 busy ping timeout 100% package lost :P
00:02 -!- d3mian [~jonvargas@208.165.55.137] has joined #rocklinux
00:03 < d3mian> umm, is there a prob in irc.openprojects.net? i didnt see nickserv msg
00:03 < esden> ok I go to bed
00:03 < esden> cu guys
00:04 < d3mian> bye esden
00:04 < tsa> cu esden
00:04 < tsa> d3mian: yes...nickserv and chanserv are gone.
00:04 < tsa> there probably are some problems..
00:04 < d3mian> ahh ic
00:09 < tsa> btw...yes, openprojects has some trouble, and they are currently working on this. i've just spoken to one of the staff people..
00:09 < rxr> re
00:09 < tsa> re rxr
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01:10 -!- tsa [~tsa@p5082B1FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:12 -!- ringo78 [ringo78@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ("Lost terminal")
01:17 < rxr> anyone with ssh knwoledge here?
01:17 -!- habitat-a [~habitat-a@D576FC5E.kabel.telenet.be] has joined #rocklinux
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01:21 < huebi> re
01:21 < huebi> here i am
01:21 < huebi> from the U5
01:21 < huebi> *freu*
01:22 < huebi> rxr: whats zour problem?
01:22 < d3mian> :)
01:23 < huebi> Linux localhost 2.4.17 #1 Fri Jan 11 16:56:29 MET 2002 sparc64 unknown
01:25 < th_> rxr: was haste denn fuer ssh probleme?
01:30 < rxr> hi
01:30 < th_> hi
01:30 < rxr> I need a public key sent do another persion
01:30 < rxr> i generated one with the ssh-keygen
01:30 < rxr> I want to test the key before i send it over ...
01:31 < th_> openssh or the original?
01:31 < rxr> openssh
01:31 < th_> so just add it to you authorized_keys file
01:31 < rxr> i added the key into .ssh/autorized_keys and also tried the ...,2 files
01:31 < th_> in ~/.ssh/
01:31 < rxr> th_: did this ...
01:32 < th_> ~/.ssh/identity is you private key?
01:32 < rxr> shh asks me for a paassword not for the path-phrase ...
01:32 < rxr> only my regular user passwd on this box works ...
01:33 < th_> use -v
01:33 < th_> look what's wrong
01:33 < th_> look at logfiles
01:33 < rxr> hehe already tried this ...
01:34 < th_> 01:32:34 < th_> ~/.ssh/identity is you private key?
01:34 < rxr> currently id_dsa is it ...
01:34 < th_> rename or link
01:36 < rxr> ahhh!
01:38 < th_> it works?
01:38 < rxr> party
01:39 < th_> seems to mean "yes"
01:39 < rxr> no
01:39 < d3mian> eh?
01:40 < rxr> when a persons say: ssh public key
01:40 < rxr> does he want a rsa or dsa key=
01:40 < rxr> s/=/?/
01:40 < rxr> read: do all versions support both ?
01:41 < th_> i'd prefer dss
01:41 < th_> aehm
01:41 < th_> dsa
01:42 < rxr> is the key's trainling hostname used for s.th. ??
01:42 < rxr> mine has: rene@jackson.localnet
01:42 < rxr> I wonder if this will work in the i-net ... ?=
01:42 < th_> no
01:42 < th_> aehm
01:42 < th_> yes it works
01:42 < th_> it's just a comment
01:42 < rxr> ah
01:43 < d3mian> i always though that openprojects.net irc servers will be more efficient that others
01:44 < th_> ;0
01:45 * rxr hates hacking on security tools in the middle of the night
01:47 < rxr> th: on the server I get: May 8 02:00:19 portable sshd[428]: Failed keyboard-interactive for rene from ::ffff:192.168.1.4 port 33590 ssh2
01:47 < rxr> on the client: debug1: next auth method to try is publickey
01:47 < rxr> debug1: try privkey: /home/rene/.ssh/identity
01:47 < rxr> debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
01:47 < rxr> debug1: read PEM private key done: type <unknown>
01:47 < rxr> Enter passphrase for key '/home/rene/.ssh/identity':
01:47 < rxr> debug1: read PEM private key done: type DSA
01:48 < rxr> debug1: authentications that can continue: publickey,password,keyboard-interacti
01:48 < rxr> ...
01:48 < rxr> debug1: next auth method to try is password
01:48 < rxr> rene@portable.localnet's password:
01:48 < th_> und die stelle wo publickey disabled wird?
01:49 < rxr> th_: there nothgin more usefull ...
01:51 < th_> and authorized keys contains just that line?
01:51 < th_> (with the public key)
01:51 < rxr> jups
01:51 < rxr> hm
01:51 < rxr> maybe they need a trainling newline? *shit*
01:52 * rxr generating the 8th key ...
01:52 < d3mian> :p
01:52 < th_> hmmm ich hab damit eigentlich keine probleme... naja ich nehme auch ssh.com aber das macht keinen unterschied
01:53 < th_> rxr: sind die permissions restriktiv genug?
01:53 < rxr> wieso nimmst du ssh.com ?
01:53 < rxr> *wunder*
01:53 < rxr> -rw------- 1 rene users 744 May 8 01:52 id_dsa
01:53 < rxr> -rw-r--r-- 1 rene users 611 May 8 01:52 id_dsa.pub
01:53 < rxr> -rw-r--r-- 1 rene users 239 May 8 01:49 known_hosts
01:53 < rxr> hat ssh-keygen selber gebaut ...
01:54 < rxr> juche!!!!!!!!!!!
01:54 < rxr> the trailing newline #ICH_KOTZE!_WUERG'!?!?
01:54 * rxr jumping really heavily arround
01:54 < rxr> shit tools
01:54 < rxr> sorry
01:54 < rxr> so
01:54 < rxr> bin wieder friedlich ;-)
01:55 < th_> weil am imitat (openssh) immer irgendwas inkompatibel ist
01:55 < th_> und warum sollte ich ne nachbildung nehmen, wenn das original auch kostenlos ist?
01:55 < rxr> lizenz von ssh ?
01:56 < th_> ausserdem fehlen mir da features
01:56 < th_> free auf linux und bsd
01:56 < rxr> missing features are?
01:56 < th_> ich weiss nicht was mittlerweile bei openssh dabei ist... aber mir fehlte immer regexp beim AllowUser und chrooten fuer user vom ssh ausgehend
01:57 < th_> d.h. anhand einer egid, gid oder uid wird ein user in sein home chrooted oder nicht
01:58 < rxr> ah
01:58 < th_> sehr gut geeignet fuer z.b. cvs per :ext: mit ssh wenn man keine system-accounts vergeben will
01:59 < rxr> hm
02:00 < rxr> auf ner i-net box klapts noch immer nett ...
02:00 < th_> gibt es adapter die mir aus ner parallelen schnittstelle ne serielle machen?
02:00 < th_> meinetwegen mit software treibern?
02:00 < rxr> puh - kann gut sein. usb -> seriell gibt es auf jeden fall ...
02:00 < rxr> anwendungszweck ?
02:00 < th_> irgendein bloeder laptop der angeblich keine serielle schnittstelle hat soll benutzt werden um irgendeine hardware per seriell zu steuern
02:00 < th_> (windows)
02:01 < rxr> hat das ding nen usb port?
02:01 < th_> er hat nen ps2 anschluss, aber das ist doch nicht vollwertig rs232 afaik
02:01 < th_> das bezweifle ich fast...
02:01 < th_> es gibt pcmcia karten aber da hab ich nur was fuer > 150 euro gefunden
02:01 < rxr> ich glaube wenn es parallel -> seriell gibt ist das ding sicher schwer zu bekommen ...
02:02 < rxr> da ist pcmcia -> seriell warscheinlich noch einfacher ...
02:02 < th_> naja vllt ist ja usb da, dann sollte es kein thema sein
02:05 < rxr> argh
02:06 < th_> n8
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02:09 < rxr> n8
02:10 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has joined #rocklinux
02:11 -!- d3mian is now known as d3m|brb
02:12 < rxr> YYEEAAHH!!
02:13 * rxr works finally *jump* *jump*
02:14 < tomik> hello
02:14 < rxr> hi
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02:35 < huebi> so I started to build up my build environment on the U5
02:35 < huebi> but now it's time to go to bed
02:35 < huebi> bye
02:37 < d3m|brb> cu huebi
02:38 -!- d3m|brb is now known as d3mian
02:40 < rxr> n8 huebi
02:40 < rxr> ich leg mich jetzt auch hin ...
02:41 < d3mian> umm
02:42 < d3mian> somebody tried to erase my $home files
02:42 < d3mian> he did it
02:43 < d3mian> rxr: da u have rlogin working?
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03:31 < id10t> hi all
03:34 < id10t> anyone got a working url to the rock linux guide? the link on the page 404's
03:34 * id10t wants to rtfm
03:37 < d3mian> hello id10t !!!
03:38 < d3mian> let me see
03:42 < d3mian> umm, there is a error
03:43 < d3mian> but i have sources one here
03:43 < d3mian> da u have mail?
03:45 < id10t> sure do
03:45 < id10t> linuxb0y@hotmail.com
03:45 < id10t> i appreciate it
03:49 < d3mian> wait a minute
03:57 < d3mian> mail sent
03:58 < d3mian> :)
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05:23 -!- d3m|brb is now known as d3mian
05:23 < d3mian> hello cap
05:23 < d3mian> :)
05:23 < cap> hi d3mian :-)
05:23 < cap> compiled rock?
05:23 < d3mian> yet no
05:23 < d3mian> da u?
05:24 < d3mian> i m waitinf for a new box
05:24 < d3mian> i dunt have enough space, what about u?
05:24 < cap> i'm downloading the dRock 1.6 rc3 right now
05:24 < cap> its not that fast with isdn
05:24 < d3mian> umm, cool
05:24 < d3mian> but.. sources right?
05:24 < cap> ..the binaries
05:24 < d3mian> ahh
05:24 < d3mian> ic
05:25 < d3mian> where da u live cap ?
05:25 < cap> good ol'germany :)
05:25 < d3mian> ok
05:26 < d3mian> i use phone line connection
05:26 < d3mian> 56K
05:26 < cap> ugh
05:26 < d3mian> how much is ur bandwidht?
05:26 < cap> ~ 7 kb/s
05:27 < d3mian> ehh?
05:27 < d3mian> really?
05:28 < cap> hmmm
05:29 < d3mian> dont u have rock users near ur city, I mean to borrow drock isos
05:29 < cap> well its 115K, should be twice as fast as a serial modem line
05:30 < cap> we say 7 kb/s
05:30 < d3mian> yes
05:30 < d3mian> ok
05:30 < cap> i dont now anyone using rock
05:30 < cap> came over it through the internet
05:30 < cap> :-)
05:30 < d3mian> ahh ic
05:30 < d3mian> well, i live in costa rica
05:30 < d3mian> :p
05:31 < cap> thats c00l
05:31 < d3mian> yeah
05:32 < cap> ahhh costa rica is northern to panama, right?
05:34 < d3mian> ehh
05:34 < d3mian> yes
05:35 < cap> how comes you're interested in rock?
05:35 < d3mian> wait..
05:35 < d3mian> mom
05:36 < d3mian> back
05:36 < d3mian> umm, i met a rock user here in cr
05:36 < d3mian> i think we are alone with rock here hehe
05:36 < d3mian> well, what about u
05:36 < d3mian> ?
05:37 < cap> i was looking for a flexible but none-"klickibunti" distro that you can build yourself
05:38 < cap> so i am gonna try the binaries first
05:38 < d3mian> :)
05:38 < cap> then, in a 32,5 hours build procces, melt my own brew ;-)
05:38 < d3mian> why drock and not rock?
05:39 < cap> why not? :)
05:39 < d3mian> well, it doesnt care
05:39 < cap> its for my desktop computer
05:39 < d3mian> ah ic
05:42 < cap> i am playing around with openbsd, it will run a server (which i will put together from some old crap lying here and there :)
05:42 < d3mian> QQok
05:43 < d3mian> well, ppl say that rock is like openbsd
05:43 < d3mian> i dunno
05:43 < cap> so, dRock, is the desktop
05:43 < d3mian> yes
05:43 < cap> fine :-)
05:43 < cap> i like openbsd style but i miss the bash by default
05:43 < d3mian> hehe
05:44 < d3mian> well, i used freebsd 4.4 just for 3 days
05:44 < d3mian> :p
05:44 < cap> 4.5 crashed with my first install :-) ..i threw it away..
05:45 < d3mian> heheh
05:45 < d3mian> yesterday i had a strange prob with sendmail
05:46 < cap> yeah, i read it
05:46 < d3mian> ok :)
05:47 < d3mian> da u know about it?
05:47 < cap> hm it deleted some files in /etc ?
05:47 < cap> is it fixed ?
05:48 < d3mian> well...
05:48 < d3mian> not really
05:48 < d3mian> i just created again accounts
05:48 < d3mian> and reassigned the /home/* dirs owners
05:48 < cap> how can sendmail delete files without prompting or anything?
05:49 < cap> sounds like a.i. :)
05:49 < d3mian> dunno
05:49 < d3mian> it is rock sendmail package
05:49 < d3mian> i installed sendmail from a rock-install cd
05:49 < cap> so its a rock specific problem ?
05:50 < d3mian> dunno
05:50 < cap> :-o
05:50 < d3mian> but that was in 1.5.13, there is no a stable realease for this
05:51 < cap> no stable sendmail package for rock ?
05:51 < d3mian> i decided to use that
05:51 < d3mian> i mean that 1.5.13 is not a stable release
05:51 < d3mian> 1.4.0 yes
07:35 < d3mian> i dunno/away
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08:09 < term_emu> morgen
08:09 < d3mian> hello term_emu
08:10 < d3mian> ich will a sarg , for sleep
08:10 < d3mian> s/for/fur
08:12 < term_emu> good night, d3mian :)
08:12 < d3mian> hehe, thnx
08:12 < d3mian> good morning term_emu
08:17 -!- clifford_away [~clifford@62.46.1.231] has joined #rocklinux
08:23 < d3mian> hi clifford_away
08:28 < d3mian> __________________________
08:28 < d3mian> < Visit: www.rocklinux.org >
08:28 < d3mian> --------------------------
08:28 < d3mian> \ ^__^
08:28 < d3mian> \ (@@)\_______
08:28 < d3mian> (__)\ )\/\
08:28 < d3mian> ||--WWW |
08:28 < d3mian> || ||
08:50 < huebi> good morning!
08:50 < huebi> :-)))
08:50 < d3mian> gut morning huebi
08:50 < d3mian> :)
08:50 < huebi> hi d3mian
08:50 < huebi> I just started my first build on UltraSparc
08:51 < d3mian> how does it goes?
08:51 < d3mian> run cool?
08:51 < huebi> == 08:47:13 =[1]=> Building base package glibc [2.2.5 1.5.14_2002-05-08_02h30].
08:51 < huebi> untill here it's fine.
08:51 < d3mian> ahh ic
08:51 < d3mian> :)
08:51 < huebi> later we will see more
08:52 < d3mian> k
08:53 < d3mian> huebi: do u know why in some PCs rock and drock cds doesnt boot
08:54 -!- term_emu is now known as term_aweh
08:54 < d3mian> sometimes, during booting, i just see a large amount of couples of binary numbers, like this: 1010101010101
08:59 < huebi> d3mian: someting with lilo, but I don't know exact what.
09:02 < d3mian> lilo: sure?
09:02 < d3mian> cauz i can boot with slackware instead
09:04 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
09:04 < bluefire> Moin
09:04 < huebi> d3mian: hmmm
09:05 < d3mian> hello bluefire
09:09 -!- huebi_ [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
09:10 < d3mian> wb huebi
09:23 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9522847.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:28 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has joined #rocklinux
09:28 < anders_> good morning
09:30 < rxr> re
09:30 < anders_> how you doing rene? :)
09:30 < rxr> Good morning anders_ ,)
09:31 < rxr> I'm fine!
09:36 * anders_ just compiled a kernel w/o GRSecurity in it..
09:36 < anders_> I feel naked.. :-D
09:38 -!- simon_ [~simon@out1.R-TEC.net] has joined #rocklinux
09:38 < rxr> hehe
09:39 < simon_> morgen
09:47 < d3mian> hi rene
09:47 < d3mian> cap is installing 1.6.0
09:47 < d3mian> hi anders_
09:47 < anders_> re d3mian
09:47 < d3mian> hi simon
09:50 < simon_> hi, sagt mal.. könnt ihr mir ein transparentes x terminal empfehlen?
09:51 < anders_> Om jag visste vad han sa kanske jag skulle kunna hjalpa honom....
09:52 < simon_> ?
09:52 < anders_> export LANG=en_US
09:53 < anders_> I said, if I knew what he said, perhaps I could help...
09:53 < bluefire> simon_: I use gnome-terminal... but only because I use gnome. Maybe aterm or eterm.
09:53 < simon_> anders_ hmm, what language are you speaking? =)
09:53 < anders_> swedish.. :)
09:53 < simon_> oh :-)
09:53 -!- th [th@delta.boerde.de] has joined #rocklinux
09:53 * bluefire #include <babelfish.h>
09:53 < anders_> aterm is a good transparent xterm (actually rxvt clone)
09:54 < anders_> it'll do transparency, transparent scrollbar as well..
09:54 < anders_> tinting, shading and all the other fancy stuff.
09:56 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
09:57 < simon_> thanks .. i'll try it :-)
09:58 < anders_> dunno if there is an ext for it, I compiled from source by hand though I think...
09:58 < anders_> search for aterm on freshmeat. :)
10:11 < d3mian> anders_: why aterm, when u can download Imlib and use Eterm :)
10:13 < th> [a-wyz]term sucks
10:13 < d3mian> th ?
10:13 < d3mian> so... what's ur recommendation?
10:13 < SMP> [a-wyz] = [^x]
10:13 < th> d3mian: i use and like [^a-wyz]term
10:13 < th> SMP: would be to easy to see
10:14 < SMP> th: he doesn't get it otherwise ;>>
10:14 < SMP> morning, th ..
10:14 < d3mian> gut murning SMP :>
10:15 < th> moin auch smp
10:20 < anders_> d3mian: Eterm and imlib require much more RAM.. :)
10:21 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
10:21 < anders_> aterm is reasonably light-weight..
10:23 < d3mian> anders_: well, so so
10:23 < d3mian> anders_: what about ur box?
10:24 < anders_> d3mian: my box? what about it. :)
10:26 < d3mian> anders_: i mean about its memory
10:26 < anders_> oh, I only have 512MB, so have to be careful you know.. ;-)
10:26 < d3mian> ahh ic
10:26 < d3mian> poor one
10:26 < d3mian> :(
10:26 < anders_> hehehe
10:27 < anders_> I can't fit more in it I think..
10:27 < huebi_> Moin!
10:27 -!- huebi_ is now known as huebi
10:27 < anders_> I maybe could get 1GB in it, but 512MB SO-DIMM's are *very* expensive..
10:27 < anders_> morning huebi
10:27 < huebi> morning anders_
10:28 < anders_> thinking about getting a 40GB HDD to replace the 20GB one already in it..
10:29 < anders_> makes it easier to carry ISO's around.. ;-)
10:29 < d3mian> ic
10:29 < d3mian> i need a new box too
10:29 * anders_ needs to get an ADSL router...
10:29 < d3mian> i just can spend $300
10:29 < anders_> Hmm.. that's US$, right?
10:30 < d3mian> yes
10:30 < d3mian> :)
10:30 < d3mian> _______________
10:30 < d3mian> < Hello Rockers >
10:30 < d3mian> ---------------
10:30 < d3mian> \
10:30 < d3mian> \
10:30 < d3mian> .--.
10:30 < d3mian> |o_o |
10:30 < d3mian> |:_/ |
10:30 < d3mian> // \ \
10:30 < d3mian> (| | )
10:30 < d3mian> /'\_ _/`\
10:30 < d3mian> \___)=(___/
10:30 < anders_> you might be able to pick'n'mix a Duron box together for that...
10:30 < huebi> d3mian raises his stats ;-)
10:31 < d3mian> i ll use it to buy a cheap box just for file server and some stuff
10:31 * anders_ is interested in the new Mini-ITX boards that are due to the market soon..
10:33 < huebi> I think about a late JavaStation with 32MB RAM running Rocklinux. I want it to have as Xterminal
10:35 < anders_> JavaStation is a Sun box of sorts?
10:35 < d3mian> oughh, java
10:37 < huebi> anders_: Yes a very small one. Passive cooled. But Java is far too slow on that small sun4m machine.
10:38 < huebi> That's the reason why sun doesn't sell them anymore
10:38 < th> huebi: how silent they are?
10:38 < anders_> that a microsparc then?
10:38 < th> like yoda i speak
10:39 < huebi> But rocklinux on it should be fast enough
10:39 < huebi> anders_: Yes microsparc.
10:39 < huebi> hackbard and ripclaw also have one
10:40 < d3mian> what does hackbard has?
10:40 < d3mian> javastation?
10:40 < huebi> d3mian: a JavaStation
10:41 < d3mian> hackbard never told me that
10:42 < th> huebi: so.. how silent are these javastations?
10:43 < huebi> th: Noiseless! No fan inside. Ripclaw told me so.
10:43 < d3mian> umm
10:43 < th> huebi: no harddisk?
10:43 < d3mian> were these javastations successful?
10:43 * d3mian guess no
10:44 < huebi> th: No harddisk. It must be booted over the .net ;> with tftp
10:44 < th> great
10:44 < th> where to get them?
10:44 < huebi> d3mian: No, they where too slow
10:44 < th> would like to have it as text-console
10:45 < anders_> huebi: if you can run it in a 8MB ramdisk, you should be alright..
10:45 < huebi> th: One moment, please. I ask SUN...
10:45 < huebi> anders_: It has 32 MB. So as X-Terminal it should be more than sufficient.
10:46 < anders_> huebi: if you run it in an 8MB ramdisk, the kernel takes another two meg, X on that thing might eat more ram than you want..
10:47 < th> anywhere good pictures of javastation?
10:47 < huebi> https://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=40767
10:47 < th> ok found ine
10:47 < th> s,ine,one,
10:47 < th> there are many stations around
10:48 < huebi> at ebay?
10:48 < th> the "single unit" has no network?
10:48 < th> https://www.idsa.org/whatis/seewhat/idea98/winners/javastation.htm
10:48 < th> looks quite different
10:49 < huebi> https://www.idsa.org/whatis/seewhat/idea98/winners/javastation.htm <- must be the old one.
10:49 < anders_> They are *ugly*...
10:49 * anders_ shudders...
10:49 < huebi> anders_: Yes they are.
10:50 < d3mian> hehe
10:50 < huebi> but I want to get rid of the purple stand.
10:50 < d3mian> i guess that
10:50 < d3mian> anyway, i hate java
10:51 < huebi> d3mian: I want to have ROCKLINUX on it running.
10:51 < d3mian> i mean that for java
10:51 < d3mian> Rock will give it Color!
10:52 < th> but > $500 is to expensive
10:52 < anders_> $525 is a rip-off...
10:52 < huebi> https://www.ultralinux.org/links.html <- All the stuff to run Linux on it.
10:53 < huebi> th: I want to spend not more than 100$ or better 100EUR
10:54 < anders_> wonder if SUN will sell you the hardware w/o selling you the OS license..
10:55 < huebi> anders_: Yes. They know that they did a very bad job for me in the last year. 18 out of 23 servers broke down.
10:56 < d3mian> ohh
10:56 < d3mian> that's bad
10:56 < huebi> and they handled it very, very bad. 150 overhours in last august!
10:57 < d3mian> well
10:57 < d3mian> so i enjoy my poor pc
10:57 < d3mian> :)
10:58 < d3mian> it is powered by rock linux :)
10:58 < huebi> d3mian: I switched of this year 2 SUN server and replaced them with a very smal shell script on a ROCKlinux server *ggg*
10:58 < huebi> and SUN knows that!
10:59 < d3mian> jajajajaja
10:59 < th> huebi: so do you think you could get an old jstation?
11:00 -!- simon-- [~sts@pD951ED47.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:00 < d3mian> wb simon
11:01 < huebi> SUN's hardware sales broke down by 53% last year. And I tell my customers which solution is the best. So SUN must be very carefull in what they are doing.
11:01 < huebi> th: Better a used new one. :-)
11:02 * huebi is still angry about SUN. But I still want to make a business with them. And I want to have fun back with SUN. I like the Hardware.
11:03 < th> yes. so keep me in mind when getting some javastations
11:03 < huebi> brb. calling sun.
11:04 < d3mian> hehe
11:04 < d3mian> i think old nfs and sun hardware are the power of this company
11:04 < d3mian> nothing else
11:06 < huebi> anders_: are you still here?
11:06 < anders_> huebi: what servers was it you got from SUN last year that kept breaking?
11:09 < th> seems to be hard to get a javastation (reading that linux on js howto)
11:09 * th would like the JK-xx
11:10 < anders_> huebi: yeah, still here.. (I am at work though, so might take a little while to respond...)
11:11 < huebi> anders_: E4500: total breakdown, both systembords broken. 3x E250, U10 total breakdown,systembord broken, E3500 7 repairs nneded to fix.
11:12 < anders_> huebi: what do you do for a living??? That is expensive kit!!
11:14 -!- simon [~sts@p508759CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:14 < huebi> anders_: I'm a self employed System Administrator. The broken machines are owned by my customers. My own U30 broke down 2 times ;( last year
11:14 -!- simon-- is now known as simon
11:14 < SMP> anders_: well then don't ask ripclaw about E10ks ;>
11:14 < huebi> hi SMP !
11:14 < SMP> jo huebi
11:18 < huebi> anders_: do you know something about the quality of HP hard drives (IBM-OEM)? They have very many errors (e.g. 3541 entries in manufacturer table.)
11:19 < huebi> I saw the same on Compaq disks from Fujitsu and seagate.
11:20 -!- bas [~bas@co116627-a.almel1.ov.nl.home.com] has joined #rocklinux
11:20 < huebi> On non OEM disks I normaly have allmost no errors (0 to 80).
11:25 < th> was gibts ausser der javastation sonst so fuer vergleichbare thin clients
11:25 < th> ?
11:25 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
11:26 < bas> What's a good (stable) ROCK version ?
11:26 < huebi> th: I think there are just some proprietairy X-Terminals _not_ running Linux
11:27 -!- bas is now known as ringo78
11:27 < th> hmm
11:28 * SMP has an Entria X-Terminal by HP
11:28 < th> SMP: at what costs?
11:29 < th> SMP: which os?
11:29 -!- praenti|away is now known as praenti
11:29 < praenti> moin
11:29 < huebi> https://www.livingston-europe.com/shop/shop.php/lk=de/sk=de/pid=478/pt=pis <- One offer but the prices at Livingston are allways too high!
11:30 < huebi> hi praenti
11:30 < huebi> hi ringo78
11:30 < SMP> th: ah, it's an old one. I bought it used
11:30 < SMP> th: I wouldn't say it runs an 'operating system' ;)
11:30 < th> huebi: ray1... quite few technical specs
11:31 < th> SMP: ok
11:31 < SMP> it boot the Xserver over NFS/FTP and that's it
11:31 < ringo78> hi all !
11:31 -!- clifford_away is now known as clifford
11:31 < th> os on ramdisk would be nice
11:32 < d3mian> hi clifford
11:32 < praenti> anyone know someone with a hp omnibook 4150B, who want to sell his mainboard
11:32 < clifford> hi.
11:32 < huebi> hi clifford
11:33 < praenti> hi clifford
11:33 < d3mian> i praenti
11:34 < huebi> THe U5 is a little bit slow
11:34 < praenti> d3mian: should that be a hi or you have a omnibook and want to sell the mainboard?
11:34 < huebi> == 08:53:40 =[1]=> Building base package glibc [2.2.5 1.5.14
11:34 < d3mian> praenti: ahh sorry, it is just a simple "hi"
11:34 < huebi> == 11:31:55 05/08/02 =[1]=> Finished building package glibc.
11:35 < d3mian> :)
11:35 < clifford> huebi: what hw are you building on?
11:36 < huebi> attention flood:
11:36 < huebi>
11:36 < huebi> root@fels:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo
11:36 < huebi> cpu: TI UltraSparc IIi
11:36 < huebi> fpu: UltraSparc IIi integrated FPU
11:36 < huebi> promlib: Version 3 Revision 31
11:36 < huebi> prom: 3.31.0
11:36 < huebi> type: sun4u
11:36 < huebi> ncpus probed: 1
11:36 < huebi> ncpus active: 1
11:36 < huebi> Cpu0Bogo: 539.03
11:36 < huebi> Cpu0ClkTck: 000000001017df80
11:36 < huebi> MMU Type: Spitfire
11:36 < huebi>
11:36 < huebi> 640MB RAM 270MHZ
11:36 < clifford> huebi: wouldn't it be faster to cross-build it?
11:37 < huebi> clifford: I never tried a crossbuild and don't know how that works.
11:37 < clifford> huebi: it's a little bit tricky with 1.5 ....
11:38 < clifford> (in 1.7 it's easy: https://www.rocklinux.org/sources/Documentation/BUILD-CROSS)
11:38 < th> www.disklessworkstations.com
11:39 < huebi> clifford: I think at the beginning of the next week I get the connection at SUN to the right person in the SUN Developer Connection. Then we'll get a fast machine for Sparc compiles.
11:40 < huebi> It's a question of having a budget inside SUN for lending a BLADE2000 with 2 1GHz CPU's and 2GB RAM
11:40 < huebi> For 1 to 3 Months.
11:41 < praenti> huebi: something wrong with kdelibs?
11:42 < huebi> praenti: Yes it failed to compile
11:42 < huebi> pcre libs where missing.
11:42 < praenti> huebi: do you have the error message?
11:42 < praenti> huebi: aha. kdelibs dont find pcrelibs?
11:43 < anders_> riiight.. had coffee, feel awake now..
11:43 < huebi> anders_: :-)))
11:44 < huebi> In file included from /usr/include/libxslt/xsltutils.h:20,
11:44 < huebi> from kio_help.cpp:43:
11:44 < huebi> /usr/include/libxslt/xsltInternals.h:48: syntax error before `;'
11:44 < anders_> huebi: HP disks are usually Seagates..
11:45 < huebi> praenti: this is after I changed to not include pcre
11:45 < huebi> anders_: These ones are IBM.
11:45 < anders_> huebi: what model/type disks are they?
11:45 < huebi> DDYS-T18350
11:46 < praenti> huebi: i see. i try to build in the pcrelibs
11:47 < huebi> anders_: My therory is that the big manufacturers just by the crap nobody else wants to have. Then they cover it with a good support contract.
11:47 < huebi> praenti: I began that...
11:47 < anders_> huebi: get the firmware upgraded to latest level...
11:48 < praenti> huebi: ok. than i search if we need more than pcre. i dont know it at the moment
11:48 < anders_> huebi: that is entirely possible... They probably go out and advertise they want to buy a big batch of disks and whoever come up with the cheapest deal get it that time..
11:49 < huebi> praenti: https://rocklinux.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/rock-1.5/ext-config/pcre/
11:49 < huebi> praenti: it,s still emty
11:51 < huebi> anders_: Yes, and then HP/Compaq/... say it's normal that harddrives fail. Therefore you have our good (and expencive ) redundand Hardware....
11:52 < praenti> huebi: i think this one is missing: libxslt
11:52 < huebi> praenti: /join #AOL, please I lood it.
11:52 < huebi> praenti: /join #AOL, please I flood it.
11:55 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
11:55 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:56 < huebi> hmm. ctrl-C in wrong Window ;(
11:56 < anders_> huebi: I know what you mean..
11:56 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Client Quit)
11:56 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:57 < d3mian> keep us wb huebner
11:57 < anders_> huebi: you can read about AIX microcode update for that disk here: https://techsupport.services.ibm.com/server/mdownload/ddys.htm
11:57 < d3mian> um, just wb huebi
11:58 < praenti> huebi: ok. you make the pcre-extension and i make the libxslt-extension
11:58 < huebi> re
11:58 < anders_> but it is up to HP to get you the ucode update for HP boxes.. Even if they use IBM disks..
11:58 -!- freed [~bofh@konzentrat.tfh-berlin.de] has joined #rocklinux
11:58 < freed> hi @ll
11:58 < huebi> hmm I dont see anything
11:59 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Client Quit)
11:59 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has joined #rocklinux
11:59 < armijn> re
11:59 < anders_> re armijn
12:00 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9E1C456.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
12:00 < th> hey armijn
12:00 < th> armijn: do you have some spare javastations?
12:00 < huebi> ahh, my screen session was a little bit corrupted
12:00 < armijn> th: no
12:00 < d3mian> i armijn
12:00 < huebi> hi armijn
12:00 < th> armijn: hmm bad luck.
12:00 < huebi> How went your exams?
12:00 < armijn> gosh, I'm tired...
12:01 < th> armijn: do you know where to get one?
12:01 < armijn> two nights of almost *no* sleep
12:01 < armijn> th: check www.ultralinux.org, they probably got links there...
12:01 < d3mian> armijn: so u can reach me if u continue so
12:01 < armijn> d3mian: ehr?
12:01 < d3mian> armijn: 56 horas without sleeping
12:02 < th> armijn: they just tell to look at ebay and yahoo auctions
12:02 < armijn> d3mian: well, I had some sleep...
12:02 < d3mian> s/horas/hours
12:02 < armijn> th: well, then that's what you should do :)
12:02 < th> ;>
12:02 < huebi> armijn: SUN is now working on to lend us a Blade 2000 with 2 1GHz CPU's
12:02 < huebi> armijn: I've been there yesterday
12:03 < armijn> huebi: ok, kewl
12:03 < armijn> gosh...I hate murders...
12:04 < huebi> == 12:02:32 =[1]=> Building base package pdksh [5.2.14 <- armijn: Thats on the U5
12:04 < armijn> huebi: ok
12:05 < huebi> armijn: on top of 1.5.12 from Jan
12:06 * anders_ is going to reboot this vmware session..
12:06 < anders_> brb...
12:06 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has quit ("[vmware reboot]")
12:06 < huebi> ripclaw has now also 1.5.12 on one of his U5
12:07 < huebi> He got silo configured after I had copied by Hand 1.5.12 on the disc
12:08 < armijn> huebi: I'm sorry, I'm not concentrated at all...
12:08 < huebi> armijn: doesn't matter ;-)))
12:09 < praenti> ok. libxslt is in base already
12:09 < huebi> armijn: What Sun hardware do you compile on?
12:09 * praenti must go. cya
12:09 < huebi> by praenti
12:09 -!- praenti is now known as praenti|away
12:09 < armijn> huebi: Ultra1
12:09 < huebi> MHz?
12:09 < armijn> 140
12:10 < armijn> so that's the slowest one
12:11 < huebi> armijn: Now I can get bach my U30 (300MHz) back to live.
12:12 < huebi> I put rock 1.5.12 on it. If you want you can work on it again. Untill the faster SUN comes.
12:12 < armijn> not right now, sorry
12:12 * armijn *tired*
12:12 < huebi> armijn: In the next days?
12:13 < armijn> huebi: no, tomorrow and friday (and the weekend) I won't be here at the university
12:13 < armijn> no access...
12:14 < huebi> armijn: Tell me when you want to have access. I arage it then.
12:14 < armijn> monday.
12:14 < huebi> armijn: ok
12:14 < huebi> at what time?
12:15 < armijn> around 6pm
12:16 < huebi> armijn: I found your entry in shadow from my old gateway. I just copy it to the new one.
12:17 < huebi> armijn: your mails are coming
12:18 < armijn> k
12:18 < huebi> armijn: devfs works.
12:18 < armijn> haven't been able to get it working, but it's been a while
12:19 < huebi> useradd -g armijn -c " Armijn Hemel" armijn
12:19 < armijn> can you send me al lthe info again in an e-mail?
12:20 < huebi> armijn: jo, I do so.
12:20 < armijn> thanks
12:21 < huebi> armijn: Plese try your login on rocklinux.dyndns.org
12:21 < huebi> su - armijn
12:21 < huebi> :-))
12:22 < armijn> huebi: ok, one moment, first gotta mail with HP, I can get a PA-RISC machine...
12:22 < armijn> on loan
12:22 < huebi> armijn: with out costs for you?
12:22 < armijn> without any costs
12:22 < huebi> koool !!
12:22 < armijn> HP will cover all the costs, will get it for just a few weeks
12:23 < huebi> SUN wants to do the same ;-)
12:23 < armijn> heh, good
12:23 < armijn> on loan, right?
12:23 < huebi> Yes
12:24 < huebi> ROCK Linux get's bigger and bigger ;-) I like it.
12:24 < armijn> just not sure whether I should do 1.7 or 1.5
12:24 < armijn> ROCK gets too big, I hate that :('
12:24 < huebi> armijn: 1.5
12:24 < armijn> I mean, not the amount of users, but the applications
12:25 < armijn> yeah, maybe 1.5...
12:25 < huebi> armijn: You can strip it down for your own need's.
12:25 < armijn> oh, I will...
12:25 < armijn> you bet...
12:25 < huebi> hehe
12:25 < armijn> and the cool thing is, with the way ROCK is organised, it's not even a fork!
12:26 < huebi> me too. A server with 1,3 GB OS is a little bit heavy ;-)
12:27 * huebi goes hunting ... breakfast
12:27 < armijn> Huebi the Barbarian!
12:28 < huebi> The installation of ROCK Spark was great fun. Booting from Splack, copying from ROCK-CD, unbzip2ing to /tmp and finaly untaring..
12:29 < armijn> you used Jan's iso?
12:29 < huebi> I mean the seriuos not ironic, the fun
12:29 < huebi> armijn: Yes, Jan's iso
12:30 < armijn> ok
12:30 < huebi> I burned it twice on NT. There is no Joiliet extension on that cd so I couldn't read it with windows and thought it was broken.
12:30 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@linus.regehr.net] has joined #rocklinux
12:30 < huebi> hiho
12:30 < holyolli> moin
12:31 < huebi> How are you holyolli
12:31 < huebi> ?
12:31 < holyolli> huebi: fine...and you?
12:31 < armijn> heh
12:32 < holyolli> huebi: is there the possibility that some patches i supplied aren't in the cvs-tree?
12:32 < holyolli> hi armijn
12:32 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:32 < armijn> hi olli
12:32 < holyolli> hi bluefire
12:32 < bluefire> re
12:32 < armijn> huebi: rocklinux.dyndns.org?
12:32 < d3mian> hi bluefire , holyolli
12:33 < holyolli> hi d3mian
12:33 < armijn> huebi: and log into where?
12:33 < d3mian> clifford: ur rock.sed script is cool
12:33 < d3mian> :)
12:33 < armijn> huebi: just changed my passwd
12:34 < armijn> huebi: what's the ultra called?
12:34 < huebi> armijn: fels
12:34 < armijn> ok
12:34 < huebi> fels is the U5
12:34 < huebi> rock is the U30
12:35 < armijn> no ssh running
12:35 < holyolli> *g*
12:35 < huebi> U30 IS OF
12:35 < armijn> hmm, there is
12:35 < armijn> but no connection
12:35 < huebi> hmm ??
12:35 < armijn> ah, because it's compiled normally
12:35 < armijn> no optimization
12:35 < armijn> took more than 20 seconds just to connect
12:36 < armijn> huebi: I got no login on fels
12:36 < huebi> armijn moment...
12:36 < d3mian> maybe ssh is not running on huebi's pc
12:36 < armijn> d3mian: it is running, it's another problem and I know what it is
12:36 < huebi> d3mian: ssh is up. Butt ther is just a root account on it.
12:37 < d3mian> ok
12:37 < huebi> moment
12:37 < huebi> fels <- german for rock
12:38 < d3mian> rocka <- spanish for rock
12:38 < d3mian> :)
12:38 < huebi> :-)
12:39 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has joined #rocklinux
12:39 < holyolli> hi anders_
12:39 < d3mian> wb anders_
12:39 < anders_> arrf.. rebuilding the kernel in debian to give me VESA FB support.. (And I am doing this in VMware...)
12:39 < anders_> re guys.. :)
12:41 < d3mian> i havent used vmware before :(
12:41 < armijn> ah, or s390 porting guy...
12:42 < huebi> armijn: can you login on fels as root?
12:42 < armijn> root@fels:~#
12:43 < huebi> armijn: A build is running ?
12:43 < huebi> armijn: A build is running !!
12:43 < anders_> d3mian: vmware is handy.. I'll be testing out new ROCK builds that way.. As well as kernel 2.5
12:43 < armijn> kewl
12:43 < d3mian> anders_: cool
12:43 < huebi> armijn: == 12:36:43 05/08/02 =[1]=> Aborted building package util-linux.
12:44 < anders_> I need framebuffer to get decent console size though..
12:44 < armijn> huebi: I won't touch anything, just read log files
12:44 < d3mian> anders_: i would like use it, but i dunt have enough time
12:44 < huebi> armijn: :-)))
12:44 < armijn> huebi: where's binutils?
12:44 < d3mian> anders_: yes, framebuffer is cool, i use it at 1024x1280 i guess
12:44 < anders_> d3mian: I have ROCK as base OS on my laptop, then I have Debian and OpenBSD installed in VMware as well as WinNT4..
12:44 < armijn> huebi: you forgot binutils!!
12:45 < d3mian> anders_: ic
12:45 < d3mian> anders_: :)
12:45 < huebi> armijn:
12:46 < huebi> armijn: hmm.
12:46 < anders_> d3mian: makes it easy to test things out, but you need RAM and CPU to cope with it.. I only have a P-III 750MHz, and that is alright if I don't fire up the WinNT session..
12:46 < huebi> armijn: can you fix it?
12:46 < armijn> huebi: oh yeah, download it :)
12:46 < d3mian> anders_: can i run vmware in my box?, he has 550 Mhz and 128 in ram
12:46 < armijn> huebi: and the assembler is fucked up as well
12:46 < holyolli> huebi: have you fixed the problem in install-disks with the stripping of the CVS-dir?
12:46 < anders_> d3mian: you'd need more RAM, but the CPU should be alright..
12:47 < huebi> armijn: the ftp mirror is ftp://ella/rock-pkg-1.5
12:47 < d3mian> anders_: k
12:47 < huebi> holyolli: Not yet
12:47 < anders_> d3mian: 256MB RAM is advicable..
12:47 < armijn> huebi: ok, you need a *lot* of fixes first
12:47 < d3mian> anders_: what advantages does vmware has?
12:48 < anders_> d3mian: for me, I can use Linux (ROCK) for most things, when I have to use Lotus Notes, I just start WindowsNT. I experiment with OpenBSD in another session and run Debian just for IRC and experimenting with another Linux distribution..
12:49 < d3mian> anders_: that sounds great
12:49 < anders_> d3mian: it allows you to run several different OS's at the same time.
12:49 < armijn> huebi: can you stop the build?
12:49 < anders_> unfortunately, it is x86 only..
12:49 < d3mian> anders_: i think now i dunt need vmware so
12:49 < huebi> armijn: your ~ is mounted on fels via nfs. just su - armijn and change your password.
12:49 < d3mian> anders_: yes, i know that, even i dunno how!
12:50 < anders_> d3mian: vmware is not cheap though.. US$300 for the workstation license IIRC..
12:50 < d3mian> anders_: i use AMD, is not a prob right?
12:50 < d3mian> anders_: i have it here
12:50 < anders_> d3mian: AMD CPU is x86 arch..
12:50 < huebi> armijn: It's stoped now.
12:51 < d3mian> anders_: but i didnt buy it
12:51 < armijn> huebi: ok
12:51 < huebi> armijn: Have fun. The Babarian now does his jog *g*
12:51 < huebi> s/g/b/
12:52 < armijn> hmm
12:52 < anders_> d3mian: well, I use vmware for work, so I have bought it...
12:52 < d3mian> anders_: sure, ic
12:52 < armijn> huebi: is this the latest snapshot?
12:53 -!- freed [~bofh@konzentrat.tfh-berlin.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:54 < armijn> something seems to be missing
12:54 < d3mian> anders_: i go it from my admins, they are too stupid, they leave all in all parts
12:55 < huebi> armijn@fels~# export CVSROOT=:ext:armijn@rocklinux.dyndns.org:/home/cvs/cvsroot; export CVS_RSH="ssh"
12:55 < huebi> armijn@fels~# cvs co
12:55 < armijn> huebi: heh, got no homedir...
12:55 < armijn> root@fels:/rock-linux/arch-conf/sparc64# su - armijn
12:55 < armijn> No directory, logging in with HOME=/
12:55 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
12:56 < armijn> fsck, gotta call HP
12:56 < anders_> d3mian: you got the license as well? :)
12:56 < armijn> huebi: can't the CVSROOT stuff be said by default? I will forget it
12:56 < d3mian> anders_: is it neccesary?
12:56 < d3mian> anders_: i got all the pack
12:57 < d3mian> anders_: but i can get it
12:57 < armijn> huebi: it's *not* the latest snapshot that you were building
12:57 * armijn glares at huebi
12:57 < huebi> armijn: ~ is now ok
12:58 < huebi> armijn: cvs co rock-1.5
12:58 < armijn> huebi: is this the CVS version you are building? Because ./scripts/Build-Pkg and ./scripts/config.in are not correct
12:59 < armijn> armijn@fels:~$ vi .bash_profile
12:59 < armijn> Error: Unable to create temporary file: Permission denied.
12:59 < armijn> ok, I will use "cat" then :)
12:59 < anders_> d3mian: without a licence key, you will not be able to run vmware, unless you somehow got hold of a cracked version.
13:00 < anders_> there are evaluation licenses you can get hold of from vmware.com, but they only last 30 days.
13:00 < huebi> armijn: /tmp is now ok
13:01 < d3mian> anders_: ohh, that''s well, i can use regedit to erase the registry entry about vmware
13:01 < d3mian> anders_: and i can continue using it
13:01 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
13:03 < huebi> armijn: I messed it up while merging holyolli tree. I fix it later
13:03 < armijn> ah...
13:03 < armijn> I can also do a cvs commit, I guess...
13:03 < armijn> so I can fix it if you like...
13:03 < holyolli> huebi: *hmm* but why are some patches from me also lost in /dev/null?
13:03 * huebi is now very hungry.
13:03 < armijn> huebi: go hunt!
13:04 < d3mian> hehe
13:04 < d3mian> brb
13:04 < huebi> holyolli: I don't know. I leave now. cu
13:04 < huebi> back in 30 min.
13:04 < holyolli> cu huebi
13:04 < armijn> holyolli: because they're not for sparc, but for the inferior alpha
13:04 < anders_> d3mian: not sure if that works.. I think the expiry date is baked in to the license key... :-/
13:06 < holyolli> armijn: yes, but afaik the patches have already been in the cvs - but now not more
13:06 < armijn> ok, I gotta call HP now...
13:08 < huebi> holyolli: can you /msg me a list with your files patched?
13:08 < holyolli> huebi: uffz...i'll have to look...takes some time.. ;)
13:08 < th> reicht nen 486er DX2 66MHz fuer xfree und xterms?
13:08 < huebi> th: Jo
13:09 < th> ich meine nicht x11 forwarding sondern lokal
13:09 < holyolli> huebi: otherwise i can just commit them into cvs (again?)
13:09 < huebi> holyolli: Yes. That's even better. Thank you.
13:09 < holyolli> np
13:09 < huebi> wech....
13:12 < th> how much RAM and how much filesystem is mandatory for xfree?
13:13 < anders_> th, 16MB RAM and perhaps 12MB disk..
13:13 < anders_> th: if you strip things down to do nothing but X..
13:14 < th> so 32MB could be enough for ramfs + ram for xserver+xterm+ssh?
13:15 < esden> hi all
13:15 < anders_> th: yeah.. it'll be lean, but you can do it..
13:15 < anders_> re esden
13:15 < holyolli> hi esden
13:15 < esden> rere ;-)
13:16 < esden> holyolli: good you are here
13:16 < esden> holyolli: the missing patches ... was my fault
13:16 < esden> sorry :-(
13:17 < holyolli> ah
13:17 < holyolli> np - now i know ;-)
13:17 -!- netcrow [netcrow@apollo.bingo-ev.de] has joined #rocklinux
13:17 < esden> I have not included the specific patches for your machine ... only the patches I needed for my box ...
13:17 < holyolli> hi netcrow
13:17 < netcrow> hiho
13:17 < esden> *schaem*
13:17 < esden> hi netti
13:18 < holyolli> esden: *hm* can you send them to me or to the cvs? then i can make a build and upload a cdimage
13:21 < esden> hmm ... the patches I think of are the ones that you posted to me ...
13:22 < holyolli> maybe...
13:23 < esden> they have not been included by huebi ... and I used only the parts of your patches that were relevant for my build ...
13:25 < armijn> stupid KPN...
13:26 < esden> hi armijn
13:26 < armijn> hi esden
13:26 < holyolli> esden: then please send them so me and i'll commit them - if nessecary - into the cvs
13:26 < esden> holyolli: ok ...
13:29 < armijn> holyolli: first check out the tree, am adding changes as well
13:29 < holyolli> armijn: ack.
13:31 < esden> holyolli: mail raus
13:31 < holyolli> danke
13:31 < anders_> raus = sent ?
13:32 < armijn> yeah
13:32 < armijn> it's german
13:32 < anders_> armijn: I guessed.. :)
13:32 < holyolli> anders_: raus is exactly "out"
13:32 < armijn> for some reason the people here prefer to talk german on an international channel...
13:32 < armijn> </rant>
13:33 < armijn> huebi?
13:33 < anders_> armijn: 'tis alright.. I'll just start rambling in swedish.. usually generates a heads-up.. ;-)
13:33 < d3mian> hi netcrow
13:33 < armijn> anders_: no swedish please :)
13:33 < holyolli> yes
13:33 < armijn> anders_: or else I'll start in Dutch
13:33 < holyolli> .oO(i have there better chances than in dutch)
13:34 < anders_> armijn: heh... easier to understand dutch than german... or about as tricky perhaps...
13:34 < esden> I will better my selfe ... sorry armijn :-(
13:34 -!- netcrow [netcrow@apollo.bingo-ev.de] has quit ("bank $$$")
13:34 < armijn> anders_: Dutch is pretty tricky...
13:34 < esden> s/selfe/self/
13:34 < armijn> good, I fixed huebi's Ultra :)
13:35 < esden> armijn: /ignore esden ?
13:35 < anders_> armijn: dunno, I find reading it can be harder than hearing it. Dutch has similarities with lots of languages..
13:35 < armijn> anders_: of course! We "embrace and extend" other languages
13:35 < d3mian> umm, i remember when i came here, the #chan had around 6 or more persons, now i see 21 pers, and there are more ppl
13:35 < d3mian> :p
13:36 < d3mian> hi esden
13:36 < armijn> of course, this means that lots of people actually forget about dutch culture, like literature and language and rather look somewhere else, which is a shame
13:36 < esden> hi d3mian !
13:37 * -> esden will learn dutch so armijn unsets /ignore on esden ...
13:37 < armijn> esden: ignore you?
13:37 < armijn> esden; oh, am sorry, but I'm really tired...
13:37 < esden> armijn: I know what you think ... "not a bad idea" ;-)
13:37 < armijn> just getting a caffeine fix
13:37 < esden> cd /dev/armijn
13:38 < armijn> stay out of my /dev!
13:38 < esden> patch -p1 < ~/caffeine.patch
13:38 < esden> cd
13:38 < armijn> mv caffeine /dev/mouth
13:39 * armijn pokes huebi
13:42 < huebi> re MoeP!
13:43 < armijn> huebi: I "fixed" your machine
13:43 < ringo78> Nederlands moeilijk ? Valt wel mee.
13:43 < huebi> armijn: what did you do?
13:43 < armijn> huebi: I made some changes to /usr/include/
13:43 < armijn> ringo78: ja, voor jou ja :)
13:44 < armijn> huebi: I copied generate-asm to /usr/bin
13:44 < armijn> huebi: and I copied the asm-sparc and asm-sparc64 directories to /usr/include
13:45 < armijn> and ran generate-asm
13:45 < armijn> huebi: that will fix the 1-util-linux error
13:45 < huebi> ah. ok
13:46 < armijn> ringo78: https://www.linuxmag.nl/Tux2MS/
13:46 < huebi> armijn: hehe
13:46 < armijn> huebi: but you must restart the build...and first check out the new CVS!
13:47 < huebi> https://www.linuxmag.nl/Tux2MS/tux_barney.jpg <- armijn. can you get such a shirt for me?
13:47 < armijn> huebi: no
13:47 < huebi> :-(((
13:48 < huebi> armijn: Where can I get one?
13:48 < armijn> huebi: that is an exclusive skating shirt that was worn in a special promotion game with Steve Ballmer
13:48 < armijn> there are just a couple of them...can't get them
13:48 < armijn> I tried
13:49 < huebi> M$ does not promote very powerfull ...
13:49 < armijn> mwah
13:50 < armijn> I got a .NET sweater :)
13:50 < esden> armijn: you are a hero ;-)
13:50 < armijn> esden: I know
13:50 < esden> lol
13:50 < armijn> esden: and I was supposed to wear it at a Linux conference, that was part of the deal :)
13:50 < d3mian> :)
13:51 * anders_ ponders wether to ask Clifford to remove the ROCK-UML pages or not..
13:51 < huebi> armijn irritats the audience with a .NET sweater while talking about ROCK Linux is the best fuck the rest...
13:51 < holyolli> hehe
13:51 < esden> anders_: url ?
13:52 < anders_> esden: it's on the project pages..
13:52 < esden> kk
13:52 < armijn> huebi: exactly
13:52 < huebi> armijn: That's kool fun.
13:52 < armijn> yeah, anders should work on a s/390 port
13:53 < anders_> I've not had *any* time to do anything about it for a looong time.. And the way work looks, I'll be hard pushed to get time to do anything before October..
13:53 < anders_> armijn: if I had an s/390 perhaps.. :)
13:53 < esden> anders_: ahh that thing ... I was already thinking to relive the project ...
13:53 < armijn> esden: alpha port first!
13:54 < anders_> esden: there was the other thing about running software in different contexts on the same machine, effectively removing overhead completely...
13:54 < esden> armijn: I know I know ... *nearly_cry*
13:54 < holyolli> warrkks...userfriendly on dutch.. =)
13:55 < armijn> holyolli: on the LinuxMag page? Yeah, it's a crappy translation as well!
13:55 < armijn> fsck, gotta go
13:55 < holyolli> hehe
13:55 < armijn> I'll be back in an hour or so
13:55 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has left #rocklinux ()
13:55 < esden> hmm ... and there he gone ...
13:55 < anders_> the first thing I will do when I get time, is build ROCK 1.6.0...
13:55 < esden> so we can switch to german ;-)))
13:56 < anders_> Then I have to test it, migrate to it, customise it and then perhaps I get time to do the UML thing..
13:56 < huebi> anders_: Rock 1.6.0 will be ready in the next weeks.. I did not yet finish the time schedule.
13:56 < huebi> esden: LANG=aafricans
13:56 < huebi> hehe
13:56 < anders_> huebi: no hurry.. I have to get ADSL, new 40GB 2.5" disk for the laptop, a build box and some networking gear first... :)
13:57 < esden> huebi: *gg*
13:57 < anders_> LANG=C
13:58 < d3mian> boolean online = false;
13:58 < d3mian> cu guys
13:58 < d3mian> :)
13:58 < huebi> cu d3mian
13:59 -!- d3mian is now known as d3m|away
14:14 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
14:14 < snyke> huihui
14:14 < holyolli> hi snyke
14:15 < snyke> man...
14:15 < snyke> im IRCnet isses nur noch pervers...
14:15 < snyke> das bricht im moment grade zusammen
14:16 < snyke> hm *reconstruct*
14:18 < snyke> jetz passts wieder :)
14:19 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@linus.regehr.net] has quit ("Connection reset by telekom")
14:26 < esden> snyke: export LANG=en_EN
14:27 -!- l_9_l [~jarod@217.17.228.83] has joined #rocklinux
14:28 < snyke> what?
14:28 < snyke> ah
14:28 < snyke> ok
14:28 < snyke> hi l_9_l
14:28 < l_9_l> hi snyke..
14:29 < esden> hi l_9_l
14:29 < l_9_l> hi to everyone :)
14:29 < l_9_l> how's the development of rock?
14:29 < l_9_l> seems idle!
14:30 < huebi> l_9_l: Why?
14:30 < esden> l_9_l: idle ? I would not call it so ...
14:30 < l_9_l> hang on..i didn't check the website for long time..may there's something new.. :)
14:31 < esden> l_9_l: so check the website ;-)
14:31 < clifford> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGG!
14:31 < huebi> clifford: ??
14:31 < esden> clifford: ???
14:31 < anders_> clifford: ?
14:31 < th> clifford: ?
14:31 < clifford> I;m having a cluster problem here ...
14:31 < d3m|away> clifford ??
14:31 < clifford> Look at this:
14:32 < clifford> ----+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
14:32 < clifford> 141 | ...:.. |
14:32 < clifford> | .:::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> P | ::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> a | ::::::::::::.. |
14:32 < clifford> r | :::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> a | ::::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> l | :::::::::::::::::: |
14:32 < clifford> l | :::::::::::::::::::. ..::. |
14:32 < clifford> e | :::::::::::::::::::::. .:::::::.:. |
14:32 < clifford> l | ::::::::::::::::::::::. :::::::::::: |
14:32 < clifford> | ::::::::::::::::::::::::. ::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> J | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::. :::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> o | :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. ::::::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> b | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> s | .::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. ::::::::::::::::::::: |
14:32 < clifford> | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. .::::::::::::::::::::::. |
14:32 < clifford> 1 |...::.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.|
14:32 < clifford> ----+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
14:32 < clifford> | 1 Number of Jobs build so far 424 |
14:32 < th> cheater
14:32 < th> ;)
14:32 < l_9_l> i was wrong.. :)
14:32 < esden> hmm .. that is not looking good
14:32 < esden> bad balancing clifford ...
14:33 < clifford> it waits with building XFree86 until everything else is build. so all packages depending on x11 are waiting for it ..
14:33 < clifford> for some reason XFree86 depends on 'strace'. And since it's the only package which depends on strace, strace has a very low priority.
14:34 < anders_> perhaps you need a way to up the priority of a package in the ext-file ?
14:34 < clifford> So now i have to implement a much smarted Create-PkgQueue which detecs thos indirect dependencies.
14:34 < esden> clifford: so you should manuall increase the priority
14:34 < clifford> anders_: no that would be a very ugly hack - especially since there are no ext files in 1.7 ..
14:35 < esden> hmm ok ...
14:35 < clifford> esden: no. I have to fix the prioriti creation.
14:35 < esden> clifford: kk ... ack
14:35 < clifford> it only is taking care of "direct dependencies".
14:35 < anders_> humma.. perhaps an algorithm that detects the package queue behind a package?
14:35 < esden> anders_: that are the indirect dependances
14:36 < anders_> or am I being painfully obvious here?
14:36 < anders_> *blush*
14:36 < esden> *gg*
14:36 < anders_> I'll shut up now shall I..
14:36 < clifford> anders_: yes - that's what I;m now working on - but I was hoping to finish the cluster stuff for now after writing the tool for simulation the cluster load (the one which created the output above).
14:36 < anders_> ah..
14:37 < anders_> so how much work do you reckon it is to work out the indirect deps?
14:37 < clifford> as more as I work as longer get's my todo list ...
14:37 < esden> clifford: cool ... is this included in the next snap ?
14:37 < clifford> esden: sure.
14:38 < esden> clifford: that is always like this ... my todo is also growing geometrically ...
14:38 < huebi> clifford: implement something like PVM over MOSIX. PVM starts the jobs on dedicated clusternodes and MOSIX arages the load balancing. Get the packages into several package sets for compiling. Now Just start the package sets and let them themself organise
14:38 < clifford> anders_: the problem is that the current Create-PkgQueue script is already very slow because it has to read 600 cache files whenever a package build compleated.
14:38 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has joined #rocklinux
14:38 < armijn> re
14:38 * armijn calling HP now
14:38 < esden> re anders_
14:38 < esden> I mean armijn
14:39 < esden> ;-)
14:39 < huebi> clifford: I did that with ~3500 jobs in ~70 job sets for the money transfer of the BNP Paribas.
14:39 < esden> clifford: is in inpossible to do it only once ?
14:39 < clifford> huebi: that's not the problem. The the problem is that it doesn't create jobs because many packages depends on XFree86, Xfree86 depends on starce, and nothing else than XFree86 depends on strace.
14:40 < armijn> unbelievable
14:40 < armijn> phone is broken
14:40 < rxr> re
14:40 < anders_> clifford: what is the script written in ?
14:40 < huebi> make strace earlier, perhaps forced?
14:41 < clifford> So strace has a priority of 1 (which is pretty low). Every package which can be built will be built (with up to 141 parallel build jobs until onlyu strace is left).
14:41 < esden> huebi: we already had the idea but clifford says that it is ugly
14:41 < huebi> esden: Doesn't matter if it does not work.
14:41 < clifford> huebi: no. the build order is automatically detected. the detection must be extended so it hournors indirect dependencies.
14:42 < huebi> clifford: That sounds very complicate.
14:42 < clifford> XFree86 is just the one big problem which can be seen in the stat. Im sure there are also some other stuff which can be optimized.
14:42 < armijn> will try phone booth now
14:42 < armijn> brb
14:42 < huebi> And not easy to understand for the users.
14:43 < clifford> huebi: no - it's very easy. but it's slow - this is the problem.
14:43 < huebi> hmmm
14:43 < clifford> Whenever a package has been built, the Create-PkgQueue script is running and detects which packages can be built next.
14:44 < anders_> is the script written in perl ?
14:45 < clifford> (but the good think is that besides this it parallelises very good - I don't think that anyone is going to build ROCK Linux on a cluster with > 100 nodes in the near future ..
14:45 < clifford> anders_: no - in gawk.
14:45 < anders_> clifford: perl would perhaps speed up the script a bit..
14:45 < clifford> (that's more portable - and protabitility is very importand in this case)
14:45 < anders_> ah.. :)
14:46 < rxr> ssh sucks
14:46 < huebi> rxr: use rsh
14:46 < clifford> anders_: no - perl is as fast a gawk. The problem is that I need to read _all_ cache files on every run ..
14:46 < rxr> huebi: hehe
14:46 < huebi> clifford: can you cache the cache files?
14:47 < anders_> clifford: can it not amalgamate the result of each run and only read the new logs?
14:47 < clifford> huebi: sure. But I dont want a Puzzle thing again.
14:47 < armijn> puzzle!
14:47 < huebi> clifford: only internal and temporary
14:47 < armijn> clifford: I was thinking...
14:48 < armijn> can't we use a sort of "configure" style thing?
14:48 < clifford> huebi: in my expirience - nothing is "only internal and temporary" ..
14:48 < clifford> armijn: what do you mean?
14:49 < armijn> clifford: I'm not sure
14:49 < armijn> but that you can run ./configure with a few options, that checks if your system is sane
14:49 < esden> clifford: I will build on 17 node cluster ... probably next weekend or so ..
14:49 < armijn> we don't have to use autoconf of course
14:49 < armijn> just the autoconf m4 macros
14:50 < rxr> Doing challenge response authentication.
14:50 < rxr> debug1: No challenge.
14:50 < clifford> armijn: I still don't know what you are talking about. We have package dependencies which can be used to determinate that a package can be built - and that works great.
14:51 < rxr> does this mean the server doesn't know about my public key on it ?
14:51 < armijn> clifford: I also don't know what I mean...yet
14:51 < clifford> armijn: aha. :-)
14:51 < armijn> clifford: but maybe to set up the "stage 0"
14:51 < armijn> talked to HP guy btw, he will call me back'
14:51 < clifford> armijn: which problem are you trying to solve???
14:52 < armijn> clifford: my "free time" problem
14:52 < clifford> hae?
14:52 * anders_ have to reboot.. biab.
14:52 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has quit ("brb")
14:53 < armijn> clifford: yeah...I know, it's pathetic
14:53 < armijn> clifford: I've got time to *sleep*
14:55 < clifford> ok - I think i will create a scripts/dep_db.txt file with the pre-processed dependencies data.
14:55 < armijn> got choice between a few machines
14:56 < armijn> one in the pa-8600 range, the other in the pa-8700 range...
14:57 * armijn checking debian page
14:57 < clifford> ok - I'm /away again (implementing dep_db.txt ... :-)
14:57 -!- clifford is now known as clifford_away
14:59 < esden> hmm I will have to cleanup my harddisk .. I have 11G used only by rocklinux iso's
15:00 < snyke> esden: will praenti be in bitz today?
15:00 < esden> snyke: dunno
15:00 < snyke> hm
15:00 < snyke> when will he be again?
15:01 < snyke> today you know poseidon will go down
15:01 < snyke> 4h
15:01 < esden> I know ...
15:01 < armijn> ok, I'm off again
15:01 < armijn> later
15:01 < esden> I dont know when he will be here ... I am not his mother ;-)
15:01 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has left #rocklinux ()
15:05 < snyke> hehe
15:26 < snyke> killall sim
15:32 < esden> cu all
15:32 * -> esden going home
15:32 < huebi> cu esden
15:37 < snyke> cu esdi
15:38 < huebi> Sparc Build restarted...
15:49 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has joined #rocklinux
15:50 < anders_> *frustration*
15:50 < anders_> re
15:50 -!- tsa [~tsa@rossini.marcant.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:50 < tsa> hi
15:51 < th> esden: was hast du mit dietlibc eigentlich getan?
15:55 < huebi> th: kaputt!!
15:55 < huebi> hi th
15:55 < th> hehe
15:56 < th> ich wollt grad mal ne mini-boot/root-disk bauen
15:56 < anders_> LANG
15:56 < huebi> anders_: ACK
15:56 < anders_> SYN
15:56 < anders_> :)
15:57 < huebi> kaputt <- jidish ;-)
15:57 < anders_> heh
15:58 < anders_> I have *limited* understanding of german, and some words are similar to swedish words, so I can guess...
15:58 < tsa> syn-ack
15:58 < huebi> :-))
15:59 < tsa> hm...half-open connection
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16:02 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has quit (Client Quit)
16:05 < snyke> bin ma wieder wech
16:05 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ("BitchX: its all day strong, all day long")
16:07 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has joined #rocklinux
16:08 < tomik> hello
16:08 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
16:08 -!- l_9_l [~jarod@217.17.228.83] has quit ("BitchX: double your pleasure, double your fun!")
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16:14 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has joined #rocklinux
16:14 < armijn> re
16:18 -!- l_9_l [~jarod@217.17.228.83] has joined #rocklinux
16:18 -!- clifford_ [~clifford@62.46.2.162] has joined #rocklinux
16:19 -!- clifford_away [~clifford@62.46.1.231] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:20 < huebi> hiar
16:20 -!- clifford_ [~clifford@62.46.2.162] has quit (Client Quit)
16:20 < huebi> hi armijn
16:20 < armijn> hi huebi
16:21 < huebi> == 15:55:07 05/08/02 =[1]=> Aborted building package util-linux.
16:21 < armijn> so, what did you do this time?
16:21 -!- clifford_ [~clifford@M102P002.dipool.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
16:21 < armijn> did you check out the new CVS?
16:22 < huebi> armijn: yes
16:22 < armijn> k
16:23 < armijn> checking it
16:23 < huebi> ok
16:23 < armijn> ganz geil!
16:23 < huebi> hehe
16:23 < th> esden: hast du ahnung obs irgendwo ne kleine anleitung gibt, wie ich mount mit diet builde?
16:24 -!- clifford_ is now known as clifford
16:24 < armijn> huebi: rerun ./scripts/Config
16:24 < huebi> armijn: ok
16:24 < clifford> ok.. *floodingalert*
16:24 < clifford> ----+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
16:24 < clifford> 181 | ::::. |
16:24 < clifford> | .:::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> P | .:::::::::::::: |
16:24 < clifford> a | .::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> r | :::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> a | ..::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < armijn> huebi: wait, i'm doing it
16:24 < clifford> l | . .. ...:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: |
16:24 < clifford> l | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> e | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> l | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> | .:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: |
16:24 < huebi> ok
16:24 < clifford> J | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> o | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> b | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> s | ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < armijn> huebi: you can do it now...
16:24 < clifford> | :.::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. |
16:24 < clifford> 1 |...::..::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.|
16:24 < clifford> ----+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
16:25 < clifford> | 1 Number of Jobs build so far 424 |
16:25 < clifford> that now looks much better ..
16:25 * armijn messing up clifford's ASCII art
16:25 < huebi> armijn: ok i do now
16:25 < armijn> huebi: and set it to UltraSparc
16:25 < tsa> clifford: hm....
16:25 < huebi> armijn: and v8?
16:25 < clifford> tsa: yes?
16:27 < armijn> huebi: doesn't matter, they're not used right now
16:27 < armijn> huebi: but yes, v8
16:27 < clifford> tsa: yes?
16:27 < huebi> armijn: ack
16:28 < armijn> huebi: and rebuild *all*
16:28 < armijn> :)
16:29 < armijn> just to be sure
16:29 < huebi> rm -rf dist?
16:30 < armijn> yeah
16:30 -!- surprise [kdlcjc@greencard.inder.eu.org] has quit (Connection timed out)
16:30 < armijn> or ./scripts/Cleanup :)
16:30 < huebi> *aua*
16:30 < armijn> :)
16:31 < tsa> clifford: what does this tree output mean to us?
16:31 < armijn> clifford: I will start working on PA-RISC port soon
16:32 < tsa> parallel build of 1.7?
16:32 < clifford> tsa: yes.
16:32 < tsa> ah..ok
16:32 < clifford> It will scale pretty good on clusters with up to 100 nodes....
16:33 < clifford> All we need now uis such a cluster ... :-)
16:33 < armijn> heh
16:33 < armijn> an s/390 with virtual machines?
16:34 < huebi> anders_: Huhu, we need a few s390. Please ask your boss ;-)))
16:34 < clifford> armijn: no. on an s/390 you would assign just all available to the vm guest which linux is running on and make a 'normal' parallel build. No need to make a kind of 'virtual clustering' on this hardware ..
16:34 < tsa> hehe
16:34 < armijn> "a few'
16:35 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:35 < clifford> however - s/390 has great i/o trhoughtput - but it's not the best hardware for calculations (and building ROCK Linux :-)
16:36 < anders_> huebi: hehehe
16:36 < huebi> Sparc Build restarted...
16:37 < anders_> huebi: if I only could get my hands on a p690 instead...
16:38 < armijn> huebi: how long does glibc take?
16:38 < armijn> huebi: how much mem?
16:39 < huebi> There has been a company, long, long time ago, they offered in a tv ad a ~100 node alpha cluster in a van. With remote controll. IIRC they were called Compaq. But that has been a long tine age when this conpany existed. ;-)))
16:40 < huebi> armijn: glibc 2h40, 640MB
16:40 < tsa> huebi: hehe
16:42 < huebi> > make[1]: sparc64-linux-gcc: Command not found
16:42 < armijn> huebi: ?
16:42 < armijn> aah
16:42 < huebi> == 16:37:20 05/08/02 =[1]=> Aborted building package linux.
16:42 < armijn> ok
16:42 < huebi> I stoped it
16:42 < armijn> huebi: ok, stop the build
16:42 < armijn> huebi: ok, you first need egcs64 installed on your system
16:42 < huebi> <- faster than light ;-)))
16:43 < huebi> armijn: How do I get this done?
16:43 < armijn> huebi: simple :)
16:43 < huebi> root@fels:/rock-linux# simple
16:43 < huebi> bash: simple: command not found
16:43 < tsa> lol ;)
16:43 < armijn> huebi: unpack /rock-linux/base-archive/egcs64*
16:44 < huebi> armijn: ok
16:44 < armijn> huebi: patch it with /rock-linux/base-config/egcs64/*.patch
16:44 < huebi> unpack in / ?
16:44 < armijn> huebi: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --target=sparc64-linux
16:44 < armijn> I would take /tmp or so
16:45 < armijn> to keep it a bit cleaner
16:45 < huebi> armijn: ok ACK
16:46 < armijn> huebi: don't forget to apply the patches
16:46 < armijn> and setting the prefix to /usr/local is necessary
16:47 < armijn> the default is /usr/bin and then it will overwrite the normal gcc, which you don't want to do
16:47 < huebi> armijn: fully ACK
16:47 < huebi> :-)
16:47 < armijn> huebi: you did apply the patches?
16:48 < huebi> armijn: of course I did. You said that often enough
16:48 < huebi> :-))
16:48 < armijn> huebi: well, you can never say it often enough :))
16:49 < huebi> flood:
16:49 < huebi> root@fels:/tmp/egcs64-19980921.1# ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --target=sparc64-linux
16:49 < huebi> Configuring for a sparc64-unknown-linux-gnu host.
16:49 < huebi> grep: /tmp/egcs64-19980921.1/libstdc++/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
16:49 < huebi> grep: /tmp/egcs64-19980921.1/gcc/cp/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
16:49 < huebi> Created "Makefile" in /tmp/egcs64-19980921.1 using "mt-frag"
16:49 < huebi> grep: ./../libstdc++/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
16:49 < huebi> grep: ./../gcc/cp/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
16:49 < huebi> Links are now set up to build a native compiler for sparc64-unknown-linux-gnu
16:49 < armijn> huebi: looks good
16:49 < huebi> armijn: kool
16:49 < armijn> those "errors" are normal
16:51 < tsa> hm...interesting.
16:52 < huebi> make is running
16:52 < armijn> interesting?
16:54 < armijn> tsa: what's interesting?
16:55 < huebi> armijn: www.xxx.com
16:55 < huebi> hehe
16:56 < armijn> hmm
16:57 < anders_> has anyone done an mc68k port of ROCK?
16:57 < armijn> you mean Mac68k?
16:57 < armijn> or just motorola?
16:57 < anders_> just motorola..
16:57 < armijn> no :)
16:58 < armijn> old Macintosh machines are a *bitch*
16:58 < armijn> there's not even floppy drive support in the kernel
16:58 * anders_ might get hold of an A1200 with an 68040 or 68060 power-up board...
16:58 < armijn> a1200?
16:58 < anders_> Amiga..
16:58 < armijn> ah, they're supported fairly well, I think
16:58 < armijn> but *very* slow
16:59 < anders_> there is also the PPC604e PowerUp cards for them..
16:59 < armijn> I will have a PA-RISC machine soon (on loan) to port on
16:59 < armijn> also need to do Alpha and MIPS
17:00 < armijn> and do a lot of cleaning up for UltraSparc
17:00 < anders_> I just want a reasonably cheap PPC box to play around with.. And with the Amiga I could get that as well as PPC..
17:00 < anders_> err, as well as MC680x0..
17:01 < armijn> hmm...amiga ppc?
17:01 < anders_> yeah..
17:01 * armijn ./scripts/Puzzled
17:01 < anders_> hehehehe
17:01 < tsa> hehe
17:02 < anders_> there are accelerator cards for them with PPC processors..
17:02 < armijn> ah
17:02 < huebi> anders_: The 68040 is on the SmartRAID IV controller in download.rocklinux.de
17:02 < armijn> yeah, run ROCK on your raid controller
17:03 < tsa> lol
17:03 < tsa> nice idea.
17:03 < huebi> armijn: *LOL*
17:03 < armijn> clustering with raid controllers
17:04 < tsa> what about pocket calculators? ;)
17:04 * huebi dreams about the IBM Linux watch
17:04 < armijn> wet dreams?
17:04 < huebi> lol
17:05 < huebi> armijn: no
17:05 < huebi> booting vi...
17:05 < tsa> better not..perhaps the watch isn't water resitant..
17:05 < tsa> ;)
17:05 < tsa> +s
17:06 < armijn> huebi: how much memory in the u5?
17:07 < huebi> 640MB
17:07 < armijn> pfew
17:07 < armijn> that's...ehr...nice
17:07 < armijn> so, why is it still building...
17:07 < tsa> hehe..nice and pretty expensive..
17:08 < huebi> armijn: 270MHZ UltraIIi
17:08 < armijn> ah, xgcc has been built...
17:08 < huebi> ready
17:09 < anders_> https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/apus
17:09 < huebi> brb
17:09 < armijn> it's done?
17:09 < armijn> great!
17:09 < armijn> huebi: make; make install
17:12 < armijn> heh
17:12 < tsa> hm...whats the difference between u30 and a60? anyone?
17:12 < tsa> u60 even
17:13 < tsa> both are dual afaik
17:13 < armijn> huebi: there already was egcs64, but in /opt/egcs64/bin and it wasn't called sparc64-linux-gcc
17:13 < armijn> dunno, I don't think so
17:13 < armijn> www.sun.com?
17:15 < armijn> https://www.sun.com/desktop/products/ultra60/
17:16 < armijn> https://www.sun.com/desktop/products/ultra30/
17:16 < armijn> ultra30 is one CPU
17:16 < armijn> not dual
17:17 < tsa> ah..ok
17:19 < tsa> ok...i'm gone...cu later.
17:20 < tsa> bbl.
17:20 -!- tsa [~tsa@rossini.marcant.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
17:20 < huebi> ree
17:22 < huebi> make install
17:22 < huebi> Build restarted
17:23 < armijn> kewl
17:25 < armijn> building quite fast...
17:28 < huebi> I'll see if I can get rock on the U30 tonight. But I still have to do some work on the homepage.
17:29 < huebi> /rock-linux/dist/var/adm/logs/1-linux.out -> 1-linux.log
17:29 < huebi> == 17:26:25 05/08/02 =[1]=> Finished building package linux.
17:29 < huebi> == 17:26:26 =[1]=> Building base package glibc [2.2.5 1.5.14_2002-05-08_16h35].
17:29 < huebi> :-)
17:29 < armijn> hmm...
17:29 < armijn> wait a minute
17:29 < armijn> I was tailing the file
17:29 < armijn> something went wrong there
17:30 < armijn> huebi: cancel the build
17:30 < armijn> it went wrong
17:30 < huebi> ok
17:30 < armijn> linux.conf is fucked up in CVS
17:31 < armijn> yup, it's fucked up...definitely
17:31 < armijn> it's the old one...
17:32 < huebi> shit something went really wrong.
17:32 < armijn> so it seems :)
17:32 < armijn> well, most of it is actually ok
17:32 < armijn> just the kernel
17:33 < huebi> jupp. I got it
17:33 < armijn> ----------------------------
17:33 < armijn> revision 1.7
17:33 < armijn> date: 2002/05/05 14:54:13; author: huebi; state: Exp; lines: +0 -21
17:33 < armijn> hollyolli's alpha patches
17:33 < armijn> ----------------------------
17:33 < armijn> revision 1.6
17:33 < armijn> date: 2002/05/02 09:28:04; author: huebi; state: Exp; lines: +21 -0
17:33 < armijn> more files from Armijn's Sparc Patches
17:33 < armijn> ----------------------------
17:33 -!- l_9_l [~jarod@217.17.228.83] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:33 < armijn> that explains it
17:33 < armijn> holyolli did it!
17:34 < huebi> Yes
17:34 < huebi> We don't work on branches. That's the reason.
17:34 < armijn> no, it's the maintainer's fault >:->
17:35 < huebi> and I did not have a good look at the changes.
17:35 < huebi> I' ll do it more carefull in the future
17:35 < armijn> yeah, and apply my patches :)
17:36 < huebi> armijn: I applied them.
17:36 < armijn> yeah, but you'll have to do it again :)
17:36 < huebi> but I also removed them too.
17:37 < armijn> I think you *might* have removed esden's stuff as well
17:37 < huebi> armijn: I have to control that
17:37 < armijn> 002-05-05 16:54 huebi
17:37 < armijn> * arch-conf/alpha/kernel-disable.lst, base-config/alsa/alsa.conf,
17:37 < armijn> base-config/binutils/binutils.pz,
17:37 < armijn> base-config/install-disks/install-disks.conf,
17:37 < armijn> base-config/libsafe/libsafe.conf, base-config/linux/linux.conf,
17:37 < armijn> base-config/xfree86/xfree86.conf, base-config/xfree86/xfree86.pz,
17:37 < armijn> scripts/Build-All, scripts/Build-Pkg, scripts/Build-Stage,
17:37 < armijn> scripts/Puzzle, scripts/config.in, scripts/packages,
17:37 < armijn> scripts/parse-config: hollyolli's alpha patches
17:37 < armijn> 2002-05-05 01:40 huebi
17:37 < armijn> * scripts/: Build-All, Build-Pkg, Build-Stage, config.in:
17:37 < armijn> modifikations by esden for rock-lcd and build rock-debug is now an
17:37 < armijn> option
17:37 < armijn> there are some clashes there...
17:37 < armijn> unless holyolli used the latest CVS snapshot
17:38 * armijn digging through ChangeLog
17:39 < armijn> nope, just fixing linux.conf should help
17:39 < huebi> ok
17:45 < huebi> rm -rf build.out dist lib src tars
17:46 < armijn> not ./scripts/Cleanup?
17:47 < huebi> armijn: I better like the rm. Cleanup is dangerous.
17:48 < armijn> hehe
17:48 < armijn> but it works!
17:48 < huebi> too often.
17:48 < armijn> and thorough
17:49 < armijn> cleans better than an average housewife
17:49 < armijn> and it sucks harder than a vacuum cleaner
17:49 < huebi> *LoooL*
17:50 < armijn> ehr
17:50 < armijn> something went wrong
17:52 < huebi> #!/bin/sh
17:52 < huebi> #
17:52 < huebi> # Cleanup restores the environment,
17:52 < huebi> # cleans better than an average housewife
17:52 < huebi> # and it sucks harder than a vacuum cleaner
17:52 < huebi> # Comment from Armijn Hemel
17:53 < armijn> huebi: no execute permission for ./misc/generate-asm
17:53 < armijn> :((
17:53 < huebi> armijn: Ah thak you
17:53 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
17:53 < armijn> huebi: you will have to adapt that in CVS as well
17:53 -!- simon_ [~simon@out1.R-TEC.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:54 < huebi> armijn: I had a problem with file permissions in cvs.
17:55 < armijn> hmm
17:55 < huebi> Now I found a solution.
17:55 < armijn> https://cvsbook.red-bean.com/
17:58 < armijn> huebi: ah well
17:58 < armijn> gotta go now...
17:58 < armijn> dinner first, then pub :))
17:58 < huebi> armijn: have fun
17:59 < huebi> I'll go in a few minutes, too.
17:59 < armijn> blacklist of computer games in .de
17:59 < huebi> -r-xr-xr-x 1 huebi cvs 1535 May 5 16:51 generate-asm,v
18:01 < huebi> armijn: They are a little bit crazy here.
18:01 < armijn> I know
18:01 < armijn> well, what about here...
18:01 < armijn> with politicians who get shot...
18:01 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has joined #rocklinux
18:02 < huebi> build restarted
18:02 < huebi> hi tomik
18:02 < tomik> hello
18:02 < armijn> huebi: great
18:02 < armijn> huebi: I will check it on Monday :))
18:02 * armijn gone
18:02 < huebi> armijn: Really crazy are the people in Israel
18:02 < huebi> by armijn
18:02 < armijn> huebi: no comment :)
18:02 * armijn gone
18:02 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has left #rocklinux ()
18:03 < huebi> ;-)
18:03 -!- praenti|away is now known as praenti
18:03 < praenti> re
18:03 < huebi> hi praenti
18:04 < huebi> CU later. I change my place now.
18:04 < praenti> huebi: you get this error because the fucking developer of libxslt has excluded something what kdelibs need
18:05 < praenti> huebi: but i must see. what it is exactly. cu later
18:05 < huebi> praenti: ok. Perhaps rxr knows something about it.
18:05 < huebi> rxr: ??
18:05 < huebi> bye
18:07 < rxr> jups
18:08 < rxr> praenti: which tree are you building?
18:09 < praenti> rxr: 1.5.14 on U5. It is not my build. Huebi gets this error.
18:10 < praenti> rxr: libxslt version 1.0.15
18:10 < praenti> but i see at the moment that i can update the version
18:11 < praenti> perhaps a newer version makes the kdebuild better
18:12 -!- surprise [kdlcjc@greencard.inder.eu.org] has joined #rocklinux
18:12 -!- cap [cap@pD904853E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:14 < rxr> 2.4.20 builds
18:15 < rxr> praenti: maybe comatebility sym-linking in libxml (version1) is the problem=
18:15 < rxr> I removed s.th. slimiar in 1.7 ...
18:15 < SMP> 2.4.20? what package? ;)
18:15 < rxr> KDE-3.0.0 builds with libxml2-2.4.20 ...
18:16 < SMP> ahh
18:17 < praenti> rxr: i will check the libxml2 version too
18:17 < rxr> you could also check for a bogus sym-link in libxml (version1), too
18:18 < praenti> rxr: version of libxml2 is ok
18:27 < rxr> praenti: the stuff in the query is what you get when libxml-1 headers are included
18:27 < rxr> remove the blabla/libxml-1.0 -> ../libxml symlink from the libxml package ...
18:31 < praenti> rxr: you mean the libxml -> gnome-xml symlink?
18:31 < praenti> in /usr/include?
18:33 < rxr> postmake="cd /usr/include ; rm -rf libxml ; ln -sf gnome-xml libxml"
18:33 < rxr> this one is evil
18:33 < rxr> hm - huebis cvs-web is strange ...
18:34 < anders_> riiiight.. time to go home for the day.. ~~~
18:34 -!- anders_ [~guest@imhotep.hursley.ibm.com] has quit (">_<")
18:34 < praenti> rxr: ok. i make a # before the line
18:34 < rxr> cu anders_ ;-)!
18:34 < rxr> it also does not exist in 1.7 and dRock ...
18:40 < praenti> huebi: try the compile now. if it is not working either i will change the libxslt version
18:41 < rxr> praenti: have you also removed the link the libxslt package has already created in the dist-tree?
18:43 < praenti> huebi: ^------------------------------------------------------^
18:44 < praenti> rxr: i can start a build in a few days. i dont have build the new yet
18:48 < th> where does the kernel look for init?
18:49 < rxr> sbin ?
18:50 < rxr> you can also specify one via init=/bin/bash ;-)
18:50 < th> but only when using a boot-loader
18:50 < th> i just copied kernel + root-fs to a disc
18:50 < th> it just reaches "freeing unused kernel memory"
18:50 < th> root-fs is found and mounted
18:51 < rxr> th: yes off course ... - but you could hardcode the params into the kernel ...
18:51 < rxr> shouldn't the kernel panic if no init is found=
18:51 < th> that's what i do not know
18:51 < th> i know that the rootfs has been mounted
18:52 < th> and there it stops
18:52 < th> /etc/inittab exists in rootfs and even /sbin and /bin have init
18:52 < th> (busybox init)
18:52 < th> id:2:initdefault:
18:52 < th> si::sysinit:/etc/rc
18:52 < th> 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/fgetty /dev/tty1 --noclear
18:52 < th> 2:23:respawn:/sbin/fgetty /dev/tty2
18:54 < th> any ideas?
18:55 < rxr> i do not know the busybox init ...
18:56 < esden> re hi all
19:01 < praenti> hi esden. is anybody into bitz?
19:07 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pD9522C3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:07 < bluefire> re
19:08 < praenti> re bluefire
19:13 -!- ringo78 [~bas@co116627-a.almel1.ov.nl.home.com] has quit ("leaving")
19:18 * rxr kurz unterwegs
19:24 -!- tsa [~tsa@p5082BF32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:24 < tsa> re
19:28 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@linus.regehr.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:28 < holyolli> re
19:28 < tsa> tag.
19:28 < holyolli> tach tsa
19:28 < tsa> wie wars @work?
19:28 < holyolli> :-P
19:28 < holyolli> wie wars mit vergessenem fon?
19:29 < tsa> nix fon vergessen.
19:29 < holyolli> aha...nicht drangegangen?
19:29 < holyolli> <-- wollte dich ja noch anrufen...aber keiner hat abgenommen.
19:29 < tsa> ich arbeiten, ich nix immer neben fon.
19:29 < tsa> war grad unterwegs irgendwo.
19:29 < tsa> und nix rufnummer uebertragen..sonst haett ich schon zurueckgerufen..
19:29 < holyolli> soso.. so dolle arbeite, dasse sogar fon nicht hörst...
19:30 < holyolli> sei ehrlich...du warst auf /dev/frau und wolltest nicht fonen ;)
19:30 < tsa> nein.
19:30 < tsa> wir haben heute rudelbumsen im serverraum gemacht.
19:30 < tsa> :-P
19:30 < holyolli> mist..
19:30 < holyolli> ...und ich war nicht da
19:30 < tsa> hehe
19:30 < holyolli> ;-)
19:31 < th> even sh as busybox just hangs...
19:31 * bluefire .oO(Doh! wo bin ich hier nur gelandet?)
19:31 < th> kernel does "execve("/bin/sh",argv_init,envp_init);" and nothing happens
19:31 < holyolli> bluefire: och...schau einfach nicht hin ;-)
19:32 < th> what am i missing?
19:32 * bluefire guckt angestrengt weg...
19:33 < tsa> hehe
19:33 * praenti beim essen
19:34 < th> ich merk schon ihr habt alle keine ahnung ;)
19:35 < tsa> th: 1. mein kernel hier tut, was er soll 2.) ich hab wohl den kontext dazu verpasst..
19:36 < tsa> kernel auf x86?
19:36 < th> ja
19:36 < th> boot/root diskette
19:36 < tsa> und warum ueberhaupt /bin/sh - der sollte sich /sbin/init vornehmen..
19:36 < tsa> aah
19:36 < th> also einen ganz kleinen 2.2.20er gebaut
19:36 < th> ein rootfs (ext2) gebaut
19:37 < th> und per dd auf diskette gepackt
19:37 < th> kernel wird geladen. rootfs wird gemounted
19:37 < th> aber ich kann weder /bin/sh noch /sbin/init ausfuehren (beides busybox)
19:38 < tsa> hm...
19:38 < th> hab schon ein paar printk's in den kernel eingebaut daher bin ich sicher dass er genau beim exec von /bin/sh haengen bleibt
19:38 < tsa> sagt der kernel irgendwas, oder haengt der einfach fest?
19:38 < th> er haengt nur.
19:38 < clifford> th: kann der kernel /dev/console oeffnen (d.h. hast du im kernel dvfs mit autmoount und /dev directory bzw. ein dev filesystem auf dem root fs)?
19:38 < th> clifford: if (open("/dev/console", O_RDWR, 0) < 0)
19:38 < th> das war erfolgreich
19:38 < th> sonst waere printk("Warning: unable to open an initial console.\n");
19:38 < th> gekommen
19:38 < th> kein devfs sondern /dev auf rootfs
19:39 < th> koennten da noch mehr devices fehlen?
19:39 < clifford> th: un die major/minor nummern von /dev/console stimmen?
19:39 < th> /dev/ram0 / ext2 defaults
19:39 < th> none /proc proc defaults
19:39 < th> das is die fstab
19:39 < th> crw------- 1 root tty 5, 1 Jan 6 14:45 dev/console
19:39 < tsa> /dev/vc/* ?
19:39 < holyolli> vieleicht mal mit ner statisch gelinkten shell probieren?
19:39 < th> holyolli: die busybox ist statisch gelinkt
19:40 < holyolli> ah
19:40 < clifford> th: en chroot in dein root fs auf deinem develhost kannst du machen?
19:40 < th> tsa: /dev/vc/ is doch nur /dev/tty[0-2] und die sind da
19:40 < th> clifford: ja
19:40 < th> chroot root-dir/ /bin/sh
19:41 < th> dann krieg ich die busybox sh
19:41 < tsa> hm....d.h. das system scheint einigermassen ok zu sein
19:41 < th> vllt fehlt ja auch was im kernel
19:41 < tsa> ramdisk support? ;-)
19:42 < th> <*> RAM disk support
19:43 < th> brauch ich "Sysctl support"?
19:44 < clifford> nicht zum booten und starten des init progs.
19:44 < th> dacht ich ja auch
19:44 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has quit ("irssi rulezz")
19:44 < rxr> re
19:44 < th> "<M> Loopback device support" aber das muesste auch egal sein
19:44 < th> [*] Initial RAM disk (initrd) support
19:45 -!- tomik [~tomik@193.109.181.247] has joined #rocklinux
19:45 < tsa> hast du eine default-size fuer die ramdisk angegeben?
19:45 < th> 4k
19:45 < th> (4096) Default RAM disk size
19:47 < tsa> benoetigte filesysteme alle?
19:47 < th> [ ] Unix98 PTY support
19:47 < th> hmmm
19:47 < th> tsa: ja. ext2. das rootfs wurde ja auch erfolgreich gemounted
19:47 < tsa> [*] Unix98 PTY support
19:48 < th> ich brauch den PTY support?
19:48 < th> doch nich fuer ne simple sh auf /dev/console?
19:49 < tsa> hm...hier isses an.
19:49 < tsa> ..und ich hatte mal das problem, dass ein sshd keine shell spawnen konnte, weil er keine pty bekam..
19:49 < th> bei mir ja auch nur auf dem disc-kernel ja nicht
19:50 < tsa> ansonsten faellt mir grad auch nix anderes ein, was mal versuchen koennte...
19:50 < th> thx anyway
19:50 < tsa> np
19:55 -!- l_9_l [~jarod@217.17.228.83] has joined #rocklinux
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20:01 -!- hackbard [~hackbard@pD9E0ABAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:01 < hackbard> hi
20:01 < holyolli> hi hackbard
20:01 < hackbard> hi olli!
20:02 < hackbard> how is the alpha port going on? :)
20:03 < l_9_l> hi
20:03 < holyolli> hackbard: *hm* it's going... there were some forgotten alpha-patches, which i now have to rewrite
20:03 < holyolli> hackbard: but all in all, it's fine
20:03 < holyolli> i'm just doing a build-all and waiting for the errors to come... at least there are 3 packages which don't work
20:03 < hackbard> nice to hear that
20:04 < hackbard> 3 packages isnt much :)
20:04 < holyolli> the create-cd works anyway and it produces alpha-bootable cdrom
20:04 < holyolli> +s
20:05 < holyolli> does anybody know how i can make some patches architecture-dependant?
20:05 < hackbard> cool, thast still a prob with the sparc port as far as i read in the mailinglists
20:05 < holyolli> jepp
20:10 < holyolli> clifford?
20:10 < tsa> hm....unter 1.7 isses einfach
20:10 < clifford> ja holyolli
20:10 < tsa> [R] + alpha
20:10 < tsa> aber 1.5.. hm..
20:11 < holyolli> how can i make patches, which _only_ apply for one arch?
20:11 < clifford> worum geht's (hab' nicht mitgelesen..)
20:11 < clifford> in 1.7 or 1.5 ?
20:11 < holyolli> 1.5
20:12 < tsa> ich glaub 1.5 kann das gar nicht..
20:12 < tsa> was fuer ein package denn?
20:13 < clifford> in *.conf: [ "$arch" = alpha ] && patchfiles="$patchfiles $confdir/foobar.patch.alpha"
20:13 < clifford> withtig ist halt, das das patch file nicht *.patch heisst, weil es sonst automatisch in patchfile hineingeschrieben wird.
20:13 < holyolli> genau...oki
20:14 < holyolli> tsa: libjpeg und time
20:14 < tsa> hm...
20:14 < clifford> in 1.7 werden automatisch nicht nut *.patch sondern auch *.patch.$arch verwendet.
20:14 < tsa> kannst du nicht nen patch machen, der auf allen architekturen laeuft?
20:15 < holyolli> tsa: nein. weil bei time ne datenstruktur auf alpha schon definiert ist (warum auch immer) und bei intel nicht
20:15 * tsa portiert zwar derzeit nicht, aber irgendwie finde ich den 1.7 tree fuer ports viel schoener als 1.5.x ..
20:15 < holyolli> tsa: das ist richtig. aber ich will erstmal den 1.5er auf alpha machen, damit _irgendeine_ aktuellere version auf alpha tut
20:15 < holyolli> tsa: und der 1.7er hat noch eine menge anderer probleme
20:16 < clifford> holyolli: #ifdef __alpha__ ?
20:16 < tsa> holyolli: ack. man "synergetische effekte". ;-)
20:16 < holyolli> clifford: das ging auch...aber ich dachte im .conf wäre es schöner...oder was meinst du?
20:16 < holyolli> tsa: :-P
20:17 < tsa> holyolli: hm....#ifdef gefaellt mir besser...schoener sauberer patch statt komisches gebastel..
20:17 < clifford> holyolli: auch wenn man den patch nur bei alpha applied - sollte man ihn trozdem so schreiben das er portabel ist.
20:17 < holyolli> okay
20:26 < tsa> clifford: btw...da you already have any plans regarding ia-32 vs. ia-64 ?
20:26 < tsa> we'll probably need different [R]-tags..
20:26 < rxr> ia-64 is an own arch
20:26 < clifford> tsa: no. ia-64 will be just another port.
20:26 < tsa> hm....ok
20:27 < rxr> ia-32 has more in common with x86-64 than with ia-64 ...
20:28 < tsa> [C] x111/game
20:28 < tsa> interesting category ;)
20:28 < rxr> ;-)
20:30 < tsa> fixed.
20:30 * tsa 'cvs up -d'ing ..
20:31 < clifford> hmmm .. die deps passen noch nicht so ganz ...
20:32 < clifford> z.bsp.: gcc3 ist von ueber 150 pkgs abhaenig - darunter z.bsp. xine, xpdf und sane-backends ..
20:32 < bluefire> Does any of you know a way to make the preprocesser expand #define foo(a,b) (a)+(b) to a+b instead of (a)+(b)?
20:32 < tsa> clifford: hm... Check-PkgFormat macht noch nen bissel mist:
20:33 < tsa> CHANGELOG: File not found: package/sourceforge/CHANGELOG/CHANGELOG.desc
20:33 < clifford> #define foo(a,b) (a+b) ?
20:33 < tsa> CVS: File not found: package/sourceforge/CVS/CVS.desc
20:33 < tsa> das sollte er ignorieren..
20:34 < tsa> alternativ CHANGELOG und CVS/ aus den snapshots excluden..
20:34 < tsa> hm..
20:35 < clifford> tsa: nein - lt. entwicklerdoku gehoert das ignoriert. files und directoryies die mit grossbuchstaben anfangen muessen ignoriert werden (zumindest hab ich's so im HACKING-HOWTO festgehalten).
20:35 < tsa> th: bist du da?
20:36 < th> tsa: ack
20:36 < tsa> fein.
20:36 < clifford> tsa: aehm - er ignoriert es eh.
20:36 < holyolli> gnarf.
20:37 < tsa> licq-snapshot - [C]-Tag ist kaputt..
20:37 < tsa> [M] Tobias Hintze <th@rock...>
20:37 < tsa> licq-snapshot: Unknown package category: network/icq
20:37 < clifford> (ausser du ruftst ihn mit z.bsp. "./scripts/Check-PkgFormat CVS" auf
20:37 < th> tsa: sag mir ne andere category
20:38 < tsa> th: bei licq hast du [C] kde/chat
20:38 < th> das war ich nicht
20:38 < clifford> such' dir eine (oder mehrere) aus: https://www.rocklinux.org/sources/Documentation/Developers/PKG-CATEGORIES
20:38 < th> und stimmt auch nicht
20:38 < rxr> as war ich ...
20:39 < th> rxr: was hat licq mit kde zu tun?
20:39 < th> rxr: und wiedermal fehlte die info
20:39 < rxr> es ist qt ...
20:39 < tsa> hm....dann einigt euch bitte fuer beide pkg's auf eine category..
20:39 < th> rxr: und?
20:39 < rxr> welche info?
20:39 < th> die info ueber deine aenderung an den package maintainer
20:39 < rxr> wir wollten nicht tausende categories haben
20:39 < clifford> th: ist lt. pjotr prins nicht notwendig..
20:39 < th> tsa: wo stehen gueltige categorien?
20:39 < rxr> also ist alles gt+ gnome
20:39 < rxr> und alles qt kde ...
20:40 < th> clifford: nichtmal ne information?
20:41 < rxr> th: ?? Ich habe > 700 errors in den .desc dateien gefixt! Bei vielen sogar noch web-praesenz, lizenz, ... herausgesucht. Das schreibe ich bestimmt nicht jedem author ...
20:41 < clifford> th: nein - da gab's einen riesen streit auf der liste bzg. unmaintained packages - und der letzte stand ist das lt. pjotr jeder machen kann was er will. Mann kan ja immer noch rollbacken und auserdem ist das so viel mer bazaar-like ... (keine ahnung)
20:41 < th> rxr: aber kde/chat ist jawohl unpassend fuer licq.
20:42 < hackbard> licq ist unpassend :)
20:42 < th> tsa: und warum ist network/icq nicht existent? wodurch sind packages existent?
20:42 < rxr> ist instant messaging nicht => chat ??
20:42 < th> hackbard: psst
20:42 < clifford> th: die cat liste hab' ich gerade gepostet - ist teil der developer docu und wurde ueber eine woche lang auf der liste besprochen ..
20:42 < th> rxr: chat wuerde gerade noch gehen. aber kde
20:42 < th> clifford: ok
20:42 < rxr> wenn wir noch gt+ qt fltk, ... einfuehren haben wir bald tausend categorieren
20:42 < th> clifford: sagste mal ein genaues datum von dem posting der liste damit ichs schnell finde?
20:43 < rxr> warum nicht einfach ?
20:43 < tsa> hm...ploetzlich alle verstorben?
20:43 < clifford> th: was ist es dann? console/chat wohl kaum ..
20:43 < tsa> ist so ruhig..
20:43 < clifford> th: moment ..
20:43 < rxr> ausserdem kannst du bei vielen progs gar nicth sagen ob sie kde oder qt sind
20:43 < rxr> bei manchen kannst du kde abstellen - manche benutzen es nur halb ...
20:44 < rxr> bei Gnome ist das noch schlimmer ...
20:44 < rxr> Abiword?
20:44 < th> rxr: ich warum muss man die software denn nach der API einteilen und nicht nach der funktion?
20:44 < tsa> rxr: dann bitte im zweifelsfall ne liste der geaenderten packages an die liste, dann kann jeder selber in seinen packages nachsehen..
20:44 < rxr> ist nicht gnome - wird aber von den Gnome leuten unter GNOME / Office aufgefuehrt ...
20:44 < rxr> ES GIBT NE CVS CHAGE MAILING LISTE
20:45 < tsa> naja, alles qt-zeug nach kde, alles gtk-zeug nach gnome ist irgendwie auch komisch..
20:45 < rxr> da sind aber kaum welche drauf ...
20:45 < tsa> aehm...wo is die?
20:45 < rxr> pjotr intern? ;-)
20:45 < rxr> (keine ahnung ...)
20:45 < clifford> th: das erste mail ist vom 31.12.2001 17:42: https://www.rocklinux.org/mailing-list/rock-linux/2001-12/245.html
20:45 < clifford> Dahinter gibt's einen ziemlich langen thread ..
20:46 < rxr> Deise Personen scheinen auf der LIste zu sein (wo immer die auch ist):
20:46 < rxr> To: hobbel@users.sourceforge.net, pjotrp@users.sourceforge.net,
20:46 < rxr> rrebe@users.sourceforge.net, stefanp@users.sourceforge.net
20:46 < clifford> https://www.rocklinux.net/search/search.cgi?q=CATEGORIES
20:47 < tsa> rxr: hm....du stehst da drauf - wie bist du da darauf gekommen?
20:47 < rxr> tsa: keine ahnung - nach der sf diskussion war ich da aufeinmal drauf ...
20:47 < SMP> Leute ..
20:47 < rxr> warum nach gnome und kde sortiert?
20:47 < SMP> RTFM
20:48 < tsa> SMP: $MANPATH?
20:48 < SMP> $CVSROOT/package/README
20:48 < rxr> weil das der kleinste gemeinsame nenner ist ...
20:48 < tsa> thx.
20:49 * SMP wundert sich doch ziemlich wer alles _keine_ CVS notifies bekommt ...
20:49 < rxr> warum nicht nach funktion? Weil die categories hauptsaechlich fuer die targets zum filtern gedacht sind ... - und die user eh eher interessiert welche oberflaeche das packaet hat ...
20:49 < th> SMP: ;)
20:50 < clifford> SMP: pjotr hat gesagt er setzt mich auf die liste - hat das dann aber nie getan ..
20:50 < SMP> selbst ist der Hacker ;)
20:50 < SMP> soll ich? ;>
20:50 < clifford> auserdem kann man ja auch */chat selektieren ..
20:51 < clifford> SMP: bitte nicht - i ch bekomm so schon genug junk mail .. :-)
20:51 < SMP> oh bitte nicht nach gnome / kde / x11 / console ..
20:51 < tsa> cvs server: Rebuilding administrative file database
20:51 < rxr> wonach dann?
20:51 < tsa> ok, done.
20:51 < SMP> mag nich jemand mal nen dummen User testen, womit er sich besser zurechtfindet?
20:52 < rxr> ausserdem habe wir das vor 4 monaten diskutiert ... *wunder*
20:52 < clifford> Aaarg! Diese liste ist ueber 4 monate alt und wurde ueber einen laengeren zeitraum hinweg auf der mailing liste diskutiert ..
20:52 < SMP> Moment ..
20:52 < SMP> es ging dabei nicht um die Kategorien fuer user. IIRC
20:52 < SMP> hmm ja
20:53 < rxr> SMP: was ist mit dummen usern ???
20:53 < clifford> SMP: um welche denn? es gibt nur eine art von kategorien ...
20:53 < clifford> Ausserdem: Wir sind ROCK Linux - was kuemmern mich die dummen user??? :-)
20:53 < tsa> .oO( Popcorn! )
20:53 < tsa> clifford: ACK! ;-)
20:53 < SMP> ich hatte vorher mal ein System angefangen, aber Rene hatte seine Version vorher zur Sprache gebracht
20:53 < SMP> egal.
20:53 < hackbard> mal ne frage zum cluster build. wieviel prozent (schaetztung) muss/wird sequentiell gebaut?
20:54 < SMP> clifford: ich habe das grad halb mit den repositories verwechselt
20:54 < clifford> hackbard: auf einen cluster mit wie vielen nodes?
20:54 < rxr> SMP: wie wolltest du das denn sortieren?
20:54 < hackbard> 2 *g
20:54 < clifford> SMP: ok. alles klar .. :-)
20:54 < th> clifford: wo finde ich das ergebnis der cat-diskussiont? also die finale liste?
20:54 < hackbard> ich nehem an, dei sollten von der gleichen arch sein.
20:55 < clifford> hackbard: das ist nicht viel - es gibt ein tool um das zu simulieren...
20:55 < tsa> th: Documetation/Developers/PKG-CATEGORIES
20:55 < rxr> tsa: die muss aber nochmal einwenig gefixt werden ...
20:55 < rxr> alles categories sollten im plural sein ...
20:55 < clifford> hackbard: warte mal kurz - ich lad' den snapshot hoch - dann zeig ich dir's ..
20:55 < hackbard> amdahl schaetzt da auch ganz schoen grosszuegig ab, meien leistung is nicht gleich verteilt -> leistungssteigerung << 1/sqe-anteil :(
20:56 < th> th.segfault ~/dev/rock-1.5 > cat Documentation/Developers/PKG-CATEGORIES
20:56 < th> FIXME
20:56 < hackbard> clifford: cool, danke.
20:56 < SMP> rxr: nach Funktion (und erst dann nach UI etc.). ich meine user suchen ein Programm zuerst nach seiner Funktion und erst dann nach UI. schliesslich kommt Funktion als erster Gedanke ('ich brauch ein Programm zum XYZ zu machen' und nicht 'ich will mal ein neunes {KDE,Gnome} Programm installieren')
20:56 < clifford> hackbard: ok - das ist schlecht. Am besten verwendest du dann nicht den ROCK Linux eigenen job scheduler sondern einen externen der jobs die laenger brauchen auf dem schnelleren rechner ausfuehrt.
20:56 < th> SMP: ACK
20:57 < SMP> letztlich _sollte_ es bei einer guten Distribution dann egal sein welches UI das Programm verwendet
20:57 < rxr> SMP: Die meisten wollen aber nur Console oder nur Gnome oder nur KDE ... ausserdem kannst du dir ja (im installer?) *chat* anzeigen lassen uns schauen was dir am besten gefaellt ...
20:57 < SMP> es muss eben funktionieren
20:58 < SMP> rxr: ja die Moeglichkeit ist mir klar
20:58 < clifford> rxr: oder besser */chat ..
20:58 * SMP zweifelt
20:58 < tsa> rxr: hm....wer plant die aenderungen der categories?
20:58 < tsa> rxr: bzw. wer macht das?
20:58 < rxr> plannen? wir hier ..
20:58 < tsa> ok.
20:58 < clifford> SMP: geht ja jetzt im build-system config auch so ..
20:58 < SMP> aber egal. ich kann das ja einfach in meinem tree das so aendern wie ich will ;>>
20:58 < rxr> ich kann die mal editieren und die *.desc duch sed durchpipen ...
20:59 < th> gibt es x11/ noch?
20:59 < tsa> th: jupp.
20:59 * clifford freuht' sich auf den patch - bitte keine filses > 5 MB per mail an mich schicken ..
20:59 < th> aber auch x11/chat waere unpassend
21:00 < rxr> ich kann dir ja das sed script schicken *g*
21:00 < th> denn licq (und licq ist nicht das einzige) liefert die FUNKTION mit mehreren UIs
21:00 < tsa> rxr: vorschlag - wir machen das genau jetzt, clifford baut es ein und released nen neuen snapshot + mail an die liste, jeder soll seine packages checken..
21:00 < th> z.b. console/gtk/qt
21:00 < rxr> ich moechte wirklich ungern gtk+ und qt haben ...
21:00 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@linus.regehr.net] has quit ("Connection reset by telekom")
21:00 < th> dann muesste licq in console/chat kde/chat gnome/chat auftauchen
21:00 < clifford> rxr: wenn du sowas machst, sag's mir bitte vorher. Wenn ich parallel die *.desc mit einem script umformatiere applied dann der patch nicht mehr ..
21:01 < SMP> th: das schlimme ist --- das geht sogar! ;)
21:01 < tsa> SMP: hehe..
21:01 < th> SMP: aber ist es sinnvoll?
21:01 < rxr> wieso muss licq in alle categorien?
21:01 < SMP> dass das geht, ja. IMHO. das so zu sortieren, nein. aber ich wiederhole mich ;>
21:02 < th> rxr: weil es sowohl instant messaging fuer console, gtk und qt liefert
21:02 < clifford> SMP: natuerlich geht das - war ja ein grundgedanke bei den cat. das ein package in bel vielen (aber min. einem) sein kann ...
21:02 < rxr> kann das main teil nicht nur qt - und der rest sind plugins?
21:02 < th> clifford: geht das auch auf dem 1.5er tree? wie geb ich mehrere categoriern an?
21:02 < clifford> th: im 1.5er tree gibt es keine categories.
21:03 * SMP ist fuer eine zusaetzliche Abstraktionsebene bei den categories *VEG*
21:03 < rxr> th: habe die 1.5 cat ueberhaupt einen nutzen??
21:03 < rxr> ahh
21:03 < th> # [C] network/icq
21:03 * clifford schlaegt SMP.
21:03 < th> clifford: wie nennt man sowas?
21:03 < clifford> th: ein flag das von den scripten nicht verwendet wird.
21:03 < rxr> nicht benutze komentare ;-) ?
21:03 < clifford> rxr: nein - *.ext files ... :-)
21:04 < th> nun. dann sind mir die categorien im moment egal und wir koennen alle [C] lines komplett aus 1.5 entfernen
21:04 < SMP> clifford: $ROCKCFG_UPSIDEDOWN vs. $ROCKCFG_DOWNSIDEUP
21:04 * clifford ist froh das es die in 1.7 nicht mehr gibt.
21:04 < SMP> ;->>
21:04 < rxr> clifford: ich weiss ...
21:04 < th> wodurch wir wieder redundantes maintainen haben
21:04 < SMP> OpenOffice installer funktioniert auf grandiose Weise nicht
21:04 < SMP> super!
21:04 < rxr> th: wenn wir einmal aufraemen ....
21:05 < th> rxr: das main teil kann garnichts. und dann gibt es qt und consolen und andere plugins
21:05 < rxr> th: dann kommt licq nach libraries/chat ...
21:05 < rxr> und die plugins einzeln nach gnome kde ...
21:05 < SMP> libraries/ *heul* ..
21:05 < th> rxr: jo. und willst du die plugins dann in extra packages packen?
21:05 < clifford> SMP: Ich bin mehr fuer $ROCKCFG_FLIP_X_AXIS, $ROCKCFG_FLIP_Y_AXIS und $ROCKCFG_FLIP_Z_AXIS
21:05 < rxr> SMP: WAS ????
21:05 < SMP> aber lassen wir das ..
21:06 < th> rxr: das ist krank
21:06 < clifford> SMP: die wuerden wenigstens alle was anderes machen .. :-)
21:06 < tsa> th: ACK ;)
21:06 < SMP> clifford: *lach*
21:06 < rxr> th: was ist daran denn ktrank ?
21:06 < SMP> rxr: und was ist wenn eine 'library' ein Demo-Programm enthaelt? ;)
21:06 < th> rxr: wenn ich mir ein licq installiere dann moechte ich es auf einmal mit mehreren plugins installieren und die dann per licq waehlen koennen
21:07 < rxr> aller moeglicher stuff enthaehllt demos ...
21:07 < th> rxr: ausserdem ist das pure licq keine library
21:07 < rxr> und die bligx enthaehllt auch progs ...
21:07 < SMP> ach egal.. categories sind fuer luser
21:07 < rxr> trotzdem bleibt die glic ne lib ...
21:07 * SMP waehlt sowieso alle pkg einzeln aus ;>
21:07 * tsa faengt gleich an, allen paketen, die man-pages mitbringen, noch ein '[C] documentation/irgendwas' zu verpassen ;)
21:07 < rxr> th: was denn nun ? *wunder mehr*
21:07 < SMP> tsa: *giggle*
21:07 < th> tsa: hehe
21:08 < clifford> SMP: dan komm es zusaetzlich nach console/libdemo, x11/libdemo, oder was auch immer :-)
21:08 < th> rxr: licq ohne plugins ist ein programm welches nicht nutzbar ist.
21:08 * SMP erschlaegt clifford ;p
21:08 < th> hehe
21:08 < rxr> th: wenn die zu doof sind ne richtige lib zu schreiben
21:08 < tsa> sorry....aber IMHO sollte ein paket optimalerweise in _1_ kategorie sein, wenn es nicht anders geht, auch in 2 oder 3....aber bitte nicht in 20.
21:08 < clifford> SMP: jetzt stell dir mal vor das demo programm kann 'dialog' und kompatible fuer die GUI verwenden .. :-)
21:08 < rxr> was kann ich dafuer ... ?
21:08 < th> rxr: warum sollten sie? sie haben dafuer ja plugins.
21:08 < rxr> tsa: ACK!!!
21:08 < tsa> einfaches beispiel.
21:08 < tsa> licq.
21:09 < tsa> hat graphische oberflaeche.
21:09 < tsa> worauf beruht die?
21:09 < rxr> tsa: das sorum zu programmieren ist krank ...
21:09 < tsa> gtk / qt / ?
21:09 < th> gibts beides
21:09 < tsa> ok.
21:09 < tsa> dann eben x11/
21:09 < tsa> x11/chat klingt passend.
21:09 < th> und es gibt ne consolen UI
21:09 < tsa> egal.
21:09 < th> tsa: ack. aber nicht perfekt wegen console
21:09 * SMP wuerde x11/ nicht anfassen, weil da vermutlich so Zeug wie xfig verrottet ;>
21:09 < rxr> WWWWOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
21:10 < rxr> SMP: hehe
21:10 < tsa> th: ethereal bringt auch nen tethereal mit. soll es deswegen gleich auch in consolte/irgendwo ?
21:10 < tsa> -t
21:10 < th> tsa: in welcher ist es jetzt?
21:10 < rxr> tsa: die plugins koennen doch einzelne packete sein !!!
21:11 < tsa> [C] gnome/network
21:11 < tsa> wegen gtk
21:11 < clifford> xfig ist cool! eine echt schoene xawt app .. sowas wird heute garnicht mehr programmiert! :-)
21:11 < th> tsa: imho ist das krank
21:11 < tsa> *seufz*
21:11 < rxr> LASST UND DIE PACKETE EINFACH (!!!) NACH DER HAUPTFUNKTION SORTIEREN
21:11 < tsa> th: schon wieder: ACK.
21:11 < rxr> clifford: zum glueck ...
21:11 < th> rxr: huch. und das von dir?
21:11 < tsa> rxr: jajajaja - alles wo grafisch und bunt nach x11/*.
21:11 < rxr> wenn es ein gtk+ plugin gibt kommt das nach gnome ...
21:11 < th> rxr: die haupt funktion von licq ist imho "im oder chat"
21:12 < rxr> wenn ne lib beispiele hat - who cares ?
21:12 < tsa> dann evtl weiter nach kde/* oder gnome/*
21:12 < SMP> rxr hat eine interessante Definition von 'Hauptfunktion' ..
21:12 < clifford> was aber mach' ich, wenn ich einfach alles installieren will, was gnome ist - egal welche funktion das jetzt hat.
21:12 < th> communication/im/licq
21:12 < rxr> tsa: hat licq nun ne oberflaeche oder nicht=
21:12 < tsa> clifford: select */*
21:12 < tsa> ;)
21:12 < SMP> clifford: ne neue Festplatte kaufen ;>
21:12 < tsa> rxr: es hat offenbar eine. und die ist bunt.
21:13 < tsa> rxr: also x11/*, kde/* oder gnome/*
21:13 < clifford> mach ich dann select x11/gnome/* ?
21:13 < rxr> gnome kann auch im framebuffer
21:13 < tsa> rxr: es ist weder kde- noch gnome-spezifisch. daher x11/*
21:13 < rxr> genauso wie kde ...
21:13 < th> clifford: vielleicht sollte sowas wie licq sowohl in gnome also auch in communication/im
21:13 < rxr> STOP
21:14 < SMP> ja?
21:14 < th> clifford: die zugehoerigkeit zu gnome ist dann eine art flag, dass es installiert wird wenn man alles von gnome will
21:14 < rxr> das haellt man ja nicht aus ...
21:14 < tsa> hihi
21:14 < clifford> ich glaube, ein problem ist das man immer annimmt, das der teil vor dem slash die haup- und der tail nach dem slash die unterkat. ist.
21:14 < SMP> rxr: dito. was ist dein Argument
21:14 < SMP> ?
21:14 < SMP> clifford: ja. wo ist das ein Problem?
21:15 < rxr> wann gab es neue .mpg's ;-)
21:15 < th> clifford: sind die cats hierar. gedacht?
21:15 < clifford> Und das trifft einfach nicht zu. der teil vor dem slash ist die gui (bzw. server und lib fuer gui-less) und der teil nachher ist das aufgabengebiet.
21:15 < SMP> clifford: *aua*
21:15 < tsa> clifford: hm...
21:15 < th> clifford: achso??
21:15 < SMP> nungut ..
21:15 < tsa> dann sollte evtl gnome/* und kde/* zu x11/gnome/* bzw. x11/kde/* werden..
21:15 < clifford> wir koennten's auch umdrehen ... :-)
21:15 < th> clifford: das war mir neu... ich hatte es immer als eine art hierarchie der funktion gesehen
21:15 < SMP> ein perl script einmal ueber die sourcen gejagt wird's richten ..
21:16 < SMP> clifford: *ARGH* ;>>
21:16 < clifford> tsa: wenn wird x11/gnome/* machen ist es wieder eine hirachie ..
21:16 < clifford> .. un das soll's ja nicht sein.
21:16 * rxr wech
21:16 < SMP> welches UI hat dann eine GTK Skin?
21:16 < tsa> hm...
21:17 < tsa> SMP: all/all
21:17 < tsa> ;)
21:17 < th> vielleicht sollte es einfach eine auflistung geben statt foo/bar
21:17 < rxr> SMP: gnome/themes ...
21:17 < clifford> SMP: ich weiss schon das es schwierig ist grenzen zwischen X11, GNOME und KDE zu ziehen.
21:17 < tsa> rxr: aber es ist kein gnome-theme.
21:17 < th> gnome,kde,console/funktion
21:17 < rxr> aber ein theme fuer die gui lib auf der gnome basiert ...
21:17 < clifford> Aber das ist es immer. - Is 'yabasic' ein spiel oder eine programmiersprache ?
21:17 < SMP> rxr: die Skin an sich hat doch gar kein 'GUI'
21:18 < rxr> habe ich das gesagt ?
21:18 < SMP> clifford: ;-))
21:18 < th> a,b,c/x,y,z erlaubt mehrere UIs
21:18 < SMP> rxr: wenn's aber keins hat, gehoert es nicht in gnome/, weil clifford als erste Komponente das GUI definiert hat
21:18 < clifford> SMP: die skins nach library/ zu stellen ist pervers - obwohl es von der funktion genau zutreffen wuerde.
21:18 < SMP> clifford: ebend! nackend!
21:18 < rxr> es hat aber ein GUI zu dem es passt
21:19 < SMP> das ganze Konzept ist pervers :-}
21:19 < rxr> oder kannst du es in qt oder xaw reintuen ?
21:19 < th> was spricht dagegen einem paket mehr als eine UI zuzuordnen?
21:19 < rxr> th: nichts!
21:19 < SMP> th: nix
21:19 < tsa> hm....ok.
21:19 < th> warum dann nicht gnome,kde,console/chat
21:20 < tsa> opera - wohin?
21:20 < clifford> SMP: find' ich nicht. Wenn skins technisch als alternative windowmanager realisiert wearen, dann gehrten si ja auch nach gnome/.
21:20 < rxr> tsa: wenn qt dann -> kde
21:20 < th> x11/browser
21:20 < SMP> *ugh*
21:20 < clifford> (und fuer den luser ist ein skin ja so ziemlich das gleiche wie ein alternativer wm)
21:20 < th> x11/browser,mua
21:20 < tsa> rxr: noe - ist statisch gelinkt :-PPP
21:20 < rxr> na und ?
21:20 < clifford> hackbard: noch da? (wg. cluster)
21:20 < tsa> und kde isses auch nich.
21:21 < rxr> tsa: wiillst du jetzt noch static-kde/adsfasdf
21:21 < rxr> dynamic-kde/sdfkdsajf einfuehren ?
21:21 < th> clifford: dann muesste natuerlich ein mechanismus her diese a,b,c/foo aufzuloesen so dass du alles was b ist selektieren kannst
21:21 < rxr> dann nennen wir hallt zu not kde -> qt und gnome -> gtk+
21:21 < tsa> rxr: noe. das war nur ein beispiel.
21:21 < SMP> was hat qt so sehr mit kde zu tun?
21:21 < th> versteh ich auch nich
21:21 < tsa> wenn ich hinterher gnome/* installiere weil ich kde nich mag, krieg ich keinen opera.
21:22 < clifford> bitte nicht! gnome/ und kde/ ist schon genug!
21:22 < SMP> eine qt-only app ist so sehr kde wie eine gtk-only app
21:22 < rxr> clifford: DANKE!
21:22 < th> tsa: wenn opera in gnome,kde/browser landet schon!
21:22 < tsa> die assoziation qt-kde bzw gtk-gnome ist falsch, IMHO.
21:22 * SMP schuettelt sein Haupt
21:22 < tsa> th: dann kann ich es auch gleich in x11/browser packen.
21:22 < clifford> th: man 3 glob
21:22 < rxr> ach packt es doch hin wo ihr wollt
21:23 < SMP> rxr: uh-oh
21:23 * rxr erstelle ein post-update sed/awk script das sachen fixt ...
21:23 < SMP> rxr: /me too
21:23 < th> clifford: es waere kein thema sowas zu implementieren, ich weiss
21:23 < SMP> th: es _ist_ implementiert
21:23 < clifford> es geht doch darum, das man die dinge findet. Es ist genau so sinnlos fuer jedes package eine eigene cat zu schaffen (damit sie auch wirklich dort hin gehoert) wie alle packages in eine grosse cat zu legen.
21:23 < th> SMP: du willst auf multiple categories raus?
21:24 * rxr fetchmail
21:24 < SMP> th: glob an dieser Stelle ist implementiert.
21:25 < SMP> oder wird definitv implementiert.
21:25 < SMP> das macht auch unabhaengig vom cat.-layout Sinn
21:25 < rxr> glob was?
21:25 < SMP> *gnn*
21:25 < clifford> rxr: pattern matching
21:26 < tsa> rxr: globbing eben.
21:26 < th> ok, dann macht es sinn dinge wie licq per glob oder wie auch immer in mehr als nur kde/chat zu stecken, weil es ja auch eben console/chat ist
21:26 < rxr> th stop nochmal
21:27 < rxr> du sagtest licy hat kein gui ??
21:27 < rxr> was denn nun ?
21:27 < tsa> btw....will vielleicht irgendwer [M] fuer opera machen?
21:27 < rxr> die plugins koennen doch dann in die verschiedenen GUIs sortiert werden ...
21:27 * SMP will dev/null ;>
21:27 < th> rxr: licq ist ein paket welches ein licq-programm enthaelt. ausserdem sind plugins mit distributed die die UIs dazu liefern
21:27 < tsa> lol.
21:27 * rxr schuettel
21:28 < rxr> th: kann mal mehrere enablen? sind die qt gtk teile nicht einzeln erhaeltich ?
21:28 < clifford> rxr: bitte nicht jetzt bei jeder gelegenheit ein package in tausend su-packages fuer plugins, skins, doc, headers, etc. zerlegen (sonst verzweifle ich und starte ein neues projekt - z.bsp. rennschnecken zuechten :-)
21:28 < th> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Mar 16 07:45 auto-reply
21:28 < th> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 May 7 10:22 console
21:28 < th> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Mar 16 07:45 jons-gtk-gui
21:28 < th> drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4096 May 7 10:19 qt-gui
21:29 < th> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Mar 16 07:45 rms
21:29 < SMP> koennen wir uns bitte wenigstens darauf einigen, qt-only oder gtk-only Apps _nicht_ nach gnome/ bzw. kde/ zu sortieren?
21:29 < th> das sind 5 plugins die per default mit licq mitkommen
21:29 < rxr> clifford: cool ich mach mit ?
21:29 < rxr> soll ich mal in Berlin suchen gehen *g*
21:29 < SMP> wenn ich kde/* selecte will ich eine komplettes KDE-Env., aber sicher keinen Opera
21:30 < rxr> SMP: dann wuerde ich gnome liber nach gtk und kde nach qt umbenennen ...
21:30 < clifford> rxr: wenn wir die schnecken an elektroden anschliessen und eine effektkette dranhaengen koennen wir viwelleicht sogar alternativ-musik mit ihnen machen ... :-)
21:30 < th> hehe
21:30 < tsa> lol
21:30 < rxr> hohrt sicht gut an (hofft das keine Tierschuetzer mitlesen )
21:31 < SMP> rxr: das versteht wieder keiner und das ist IMHO auch genau gar keine Art von 'Einordnung'
21:31 < SMP> noch Meinungen?
21:31 < rxr> SMP: ich will auf meinem rechner keine Gnome muell haben ...
21:31 < clifford> SMP: was ist mit "halb gnome" bzw. "halb kde" apps? Z.bsp. ein prog das libgtk und libxml verwendet.
21:31 < rxr> und anderen suchen sich Progs lieber aus console raus ...
21:31 < SMP> clifford: x11/
21:31 < rxr> libxml ist weder gnome noch kde ...
21:32 < rxr> das benutzen beide und gehvhrt nach library/text oder so ...
21:32 < SMP> gnome/ qualifiziert sich linken gegen libgnome*, fuer kde linken gegen libkde*
21:32 < SMP> libgnome? heisst das so?
21:32 < clifford> SMP: dann wuerdest du also auch libxml nach x11/ und nicht nach gnome/ schieben?
21:32 < rxr> SMP: moeglich
21:32 * praenti wieder dqa
21:32 < SMP> clifford: hat libxml ein GUI?
21:33 < rxr> libxml geohoert weder in x11 noch in gnome
21:33 < praenti> rxr: sortiert ihr die pakete neu ein?
21:33 < clifford> hat libgnome eine gui?
21:33 < rxr> hilfe!
21:33 < SMP> *LOL*
21:33 < clifford> es _gehoert_ zu einer gui.
21:33 < tsa> aber nen binary: usr/bin/xml-config
21:33 * tsa grinst
21:33 < rxr> clifford: was gehohrt zu einem GUI, libxml ???
21:33 < clifford> genau - wir brauchen ja noch console/lib-config ...
21:34 < clifford> rxr: es gehoert zu gnome ..
21:34 * rxr muff
21:34 < SMP> was soll lib-config sein?
21:34 < rxr> Fazit: alles belibt wie es ist ;-)
21:34 < rxr> clifford: NEIN!
21:34 < SMP> libxmle gehoert zu gnome wie alsa zum Kernel ..
21:34 < rxr> SMP: ????
21:34 < SMP> naemlich nur sehr weit entfernt
21:35 < rxr> libxml ist in libraries/text
21:35 < rxr> PUNKT
21:35 < clifford> ich kenne kein nicht-gnome prog das libxml verwendet..
21:35 < tsa>