WebHosting Paid by #1Payday.Loans

--- Log opened Mon Oct 13 00:00:18 2003
00:10 -!- owl [~knoppix@80.184.0.55] has quit ("scheiss telekom nicht mit geld fuettern. WE ist vorbei. *heul*")
00:20 -!- nookie_ [~n00kie@M306P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
00:35 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M362P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:38 -!- Esel [~capchaos@dialin-145-254-158-053.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
00:44 -!- Esel is now known as capchaos
00:52 -!- k3t_ [~k3t@pD950289F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("$default_quit_message")
01:09 < mnemoc> cchamilt: openvpn's init is in my todo, but the queue is long
01:18 < mnemoc> cchamilt: have you tried using only bdb41?
01:18 < cchamilt> Yes and it works well ignoring nssdb.
01:19 < mnemoc> nssdb existence makes everything segfault from loooong time ago ;)
01:19 < cchamilt> These libraries are quite flaky on their own.  I did check through ldd and came up with no conclusive proof bdb was to blame.
01:20 < cchamilt> I think we would have moved straight to bdb41 if not for rene worrying that subversion would be marginalized.
01:21 < mnemoc> convinsing him to allow the building of perl agains bdb41 was a real challenge
01:21 < cchamilt> There is no real reason we should have 4.0 other than subversion (ie. it should be static for it only).  But what we have sort of works.
01:21 < cchamilt> He doesn't even use the stuff I guess.
01:23 < cchamilt> That whole discussion about cpan/perl bothered me too.
01:23 < cchamilt> I know there is something to be said about 'stability', but cpan is supposed to be ran 'current'.
01:24 < cchamilt> Bugs are hardly ever introduced by authors.  99% cpan's pick is best, if not the author will fix it shortly.
01:25 < mnemoc> "in cpan we trust" =)
01:25 < capchaos> *g*
01:25 < cchamilt> You have to actually.
01:26 < mnemoc> "in bush we trust" applies too
01:26 < mnemoc> you _have_ to
01:26 < cchamilt> First thing a perl person does when in development is update all perl modules automatically with cpan.
01:27 < cchamilt> If api's change, they usually make a new module name/distro for it. So old apis are safe.
01:27 -!- capchaos [~capchaos@dialin-145-254-158-053.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("There is no spoon.")
01:30 < mnemoc> they learn thay with blod ;)
01:31 < cchamilt> btw, openldap.init tries to killall /opt/openldap/libexec/slapd
01:32 < cchamilt> perl and cpan is just different.  You get a sense of knowing the authors know what they are doing.
01:33 < mnemoc> o_O rene did that.. i'll have to check/create sysv inits for my packages :-\
01:33 < cchamilt> I was squeamish, but learned that perl scripts bleeding edge is pretty good.  It is hard to introduce bugs into scripts.
01:33 < mnemoc> using runit here i don't see that problems
01:34 < cchamilt> I have thought about trying minit, but don't know if it is worth switching from sysv.
01:35 < cchamilt> The way I see it, if the program died unexpectedly - it may not be good to restart it.
01:35 < cchamilt> djb stuff was pulling all my resources restarting a screwed up daemon once.  
01:36 < cchamilt> Couldn't restart it except in single user.  That was scarry.
01:37 < mnemoc> f34r
01:38 < cchamilt> sshd is about the only thing that should blindly restart.
01:39 < cchamilt> and that is praying.
02:55 < mnemoc> i don't know if i can live without rxr o_O
03:16 * fake turning mad
03:17 < mnemoc> can we know why?
03:17 < fake> aeh, no.
03:17 < mnemoc> ok
03:17 < fake> i don't want to infect others ;)
03:18 < mnemoc> thanks :)
04:38 < esden> humm ... I ask myself if it is enough to add an issue to flyspray ... is anyone reading it? or should I also write an email ... ?
04:41 < esden> humm ... it is obviously wrong time to ask questions ;)
04:45 < mnemoc> yes
04:46 < esden> are you reading it?
04:46 < mnemoc> flyspray sucks :(
04:46 < esden> why?
04:46 < mnemoc> how can i see 'last bugs'?
04:49 < esden> they are on top of the list
04:49 < esden> they are chronographically ordered
04:49 < esden> in priority groups
04:50 < mnemoc> well... yes... 
04:50 < mnemoc> my real problem is with 'date cahnged'
04:50 < esden> ?
04:50 < mnemoc> if i order to see last changed i don't see new one
04:50 < mnemoc> s
04:51 < mnemoc> i don't like the status neither
04:51 < esden> why?
04:52 < esden> when they are set correctly then they are pretty usefull if you ask me
04:52 < mnemoc> when they are set correctly
04:52 < esden> yes ... hehe
04:53 < esden> but it is better then nothing ...
04:53 < mnemoc> full ack
04:53 < esden> it still needs more improovement ... like the information mailinglist 
04:54 < mnemoc> exactly... we are not forum guys... we are more 'nntp'
04:54 < esden> so that more people read the information
04:55 < esden> yes .. that will be there in future. only clifford needs to be kicked a bit more
04:55 < esden> ;)
04:55 < mnemoc> :)
04:56 < mnemoc> i would love to have news.rl.org or rl@gmane
04:56 < esden> hmm ... yes I would like it too ...
04:56 < mnemoc> i think i hate flyspray just because i hate forums
04:56 < esden> I do not like forums either
04:57 < esden> you have to track them by yourself that sux
04:58 < mnemoc> you loose too much time 'browsing' them... same to flyspray :(
04:59 < esden> humm ... I have to set up an nntp server ... 
05:00 < mnemoc> for rock?
05:00 < mnemoc> gmane is not bad, but's really slow
05:00 < esden> yes for rock
05:00 < mnemoc> (updating, not answering)
05:01 * -> esden waiting for mnemoc 
05:01 < mnemoc> uhm? i was talking about gmane
05:02 < esden> what is gmane?
05:02 < mnemoc> www.gmane.org
05:03 < mnemoc> may be you can set up a gmane server for rlml
05:04 < esden> humm ... could you create a group for rlml? I could send you my mailbox that contains mails since very long time ...
05:05 < mnemoc> "Archives to be imported can be in one of two formats: Either a tar file of a one-message-per-file directory, where the files have names that increase numerically, or a Unix mbox file. No other formats are acceptable. A Unix mbox file is preferred. "
05:05 < esden> Jan 30 02:44:50 2001
05:06 < esden> ahh very good 
05:07 < mnemoc> gmane is great, but it 'handles more than 30k messages per day' so it's not as fast as rl community can require
05:07 < esden> yes ... that is not very fast ... :(
05:07 < esden> why is it not faster?
05:08 < esden> what is the bottleneck?
05:08 < esden> is it your server?
05:09 < mnemoc> example: when i post to vserver it tooks almost an hour to show my message on the nntp, but just a couple of minutes in delivering it to the list
05:11 < mnemoc> i you think clifford and rene will have no problem with publishing rock on gmane, read this -> https://gmane.org/import.php
05:11 < mnemoc> third parragraph
05:14 < esden> humpf
05:14 < esden> we really should create an inn server by ourselves
05:15 < mnemoc> or a gmane.rocklinux.org
05:16 < esden> good we can download gmane tools ... that is good
05:16 < esden> but I will set up the inn first when I rocked apollo ...
05:17 < esden> before that it will be pretty useless because I have to kill the current installation anyways
05:17 < esden> it is pretty old ... and the uptime counter even had an overflow >_<
05:17 < esden> so that the box seems to be uptime only 14 days
05:18 < mnemoc> iirc gmane author has it's own nntp server called reticule, simpler than iin because it's standalone 
05:18 < mnemoc> uptime-overflow?? that's freak
05:18 < esden> ack that box is uptime somewhat about one and one fourth year by now
05:20 < esden> but I have to reinstall it because the debian that is currently on it is unmaintainable
05:20 < esden> I can not use apt-get anymore because it would break everything
05:22 < mnemoc> bad :(
05:27 < mnemoc> nice... newest file on gmane's cvs is 12.10.2003
05:39 < esden> hrm ... 
05:41 < mnemoc> when will you reinstall apollo? ;)
05:42 < esden> yes I will ... but first I need a working generic build >_<
05:42 < esden> I want to make an install in uml ... for testing purposes ...
05:43 < esden> I have to learn how to route networking in uml 
05:43 < esden> ahh I have rc1 laying around somewhere ...
05:46 < mnemoc> btw, do u have any idea about i can't build bootdisk? (rc1 and current)
05:46 < mnemoc> why -I/usr/dietlibc/include is not legal?
05:48 < esden> humm ... can you once more describe more exactly your problem?
05:50 -!- zenlunatic [~zen@user-2iveldn.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #rocklinux
05:51 < mnemoc> i have a 'ROCK Linux 2.0.0-beta6 (2003/06/28)' minimal with dietlibc installed
05:52 < esden> humm ... I have to admit that I like Christina Aguillera ... I love her voice it is really good ... (yes I know most of it are probably small little digital helpers but who cares it sounds good ;) )
05:52 < mnemoc> i'm trying to build a bootdisk + (X gcc33 - gcc3 - linux26*)
05:53 < mnemoc> Christina Aguilera sings _real_ ;)
05:53 < esden> where do you want to know it from?
05:53 < esden> you know her personally?
05:54 < mnemoc> but when i reach 1-kiss fails because of 'stddef.h: not found'
05:54 < esden> ;)
05:54 < esden> humm ...
05:54 < mnemoc> i saw a video of her when she was a girl... singing pretty good
05:54 < esden> which version of dietlibc have you installed on your host system?
05:54 < mnemoc> o_O
05:55 < esden> and is it a rocklinux dietlibc build or selfcompiled?
05:55 < mnemoc> dietlibc 0.22
05:55 < mnemoc> rocklinux
05:56 < mnemoc> mmm... is it 0.22??? mmm...
05:56 < mnemoc> why isn't it using tools.cross/dietlibc ?
05:57 < mnemoc> # diet -v
05:57 < mnemoc> diet version dietlibc-0.22
05:57 < mnemoc> it is 0.22
05:58 < mnemoc> uhmmmm.... light is 'blinking'....
05:59 < mnemoc> UPS screaming....
05:59 < mnemoc> cu :-\
06:00 < esden> I do not know ...
06:00 < esden> it should use the tools.cross/dietlibc directory
06:04 < esden> but it happens that from time to time it does not use it
06:04 < esden> so that is why I ask
06:11 -!- zenlunatic [~zen@user-2iveldn.dialup.mindspring.com] has quit ("Dialup 4 Life!")
06:56 -!- scoopex [~marc@td9091951.adsl.terralink.de] has joined #rocklinux
07:13 < esden> argh ... that is incredible. even if uml is included in 2.6.0-test7 one still needs a patch so that it is compilable >_<
07:13 < esden> argl
07:21 -!- Mike1 [~mike@ip140-62.ct.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
07:21 < Mike1> moin
07:35 -!- zenlunatic [~zen@user-2ivert2.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #rocklinux
07:52 -!- scoopex [~marc@td9091951.adsl.terralink.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
08:16 < esden> moin Mike1 
08:16 < esden> finally ... a bootable uml binary ... *sigh*
08:20 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M353P005.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
08:33 -!- missGombal [~missgomba@fake.akakom.ac.id] has joined #rocklinux
08:34 -!- nookie_ [~n00kie@M306P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:10 < Mike1> hi esdy
09:16 -!- blindcod1r [blindcoder@pD958FF1F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
09:16 -!- blindcoder [blindcoder@pD9E4FA3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Nick collision from services.)
09:16 -!- blindcod1r is now known as blindcoder
09:19 < Mike1> blindy :)
09:58 < Mike1> b
10:05 -!- owl [~owl@aszlig.net] has joined #rocklinux
10:06 -!- owl is now known as corpse
10:06 < corpse> moin
10:06 -!- corpse is now known as deadOwl
10:06 < Mike1> hi deadOwl
10:06 < deadOwl> hi Mike1 
10:06 < Mike1> :)
10:06 < deadOwl> mwah. what a wonderful day. i could puke even in the morning
10:07 < deadOwl> how are you, Miguel?
10:07 < Mike1> doing good and you Sandra?
10:07 < deadOwl> feeling less than shit.
10:10 < Mike1> poor owly
10:10 < deadOwl> nah. not poor. i'm deserving this shit
10:11 < Mike1> why ? what did you do?
10:11 < deadOwl> i am existent. or at least i think that i am existent. and i'm shit. and shit deserves shit
10:12 < Mike1> you deserve to be hugged and loved, as you are a wonderfull person
10:13 * Mike1 hugges deadOwl
10:13 < deadOwl> Mike1: hmm... your opinion... 
10:13 < deadOwl> thx. *rehug*
10:14 < Mike1> :)
10:16 < deadOwl> but... if the day continues like it begun, you can visit me in a psychatry tonight. 
10:17 -!- martin_ [~martin@141.64.23.132] has joined #rocklinux
10:25 -!- zenlunatic [~zen@user-2ivert2.dialup.mindspring.com] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:38 < deadOwl> HAEH!?! waht's going on here? my co-worker is currently listening to industrial? is she mutated?! 
10:41 < Mike1> hit back with some gothic music :)
10:42 < deadOwl> Mike1: hihi. nah. :p industrial is ok. better than her normal music ((brit)pop)
10:42 < Mike1> omg. and you haven't kill her? :)
10:42 < deadOwl> *g* not yet... and it's ok... i have always my earphones with me ;)
10:43 < Mike1> ah good
10:45 < deadOwl> sure
10:46 < deadOwl> wuah. i'm addicted to turkish apple-tea :p someone else want some?
10:46 * Mike1 .
10:47 * deadOwl hands over Mike1 a cup of warm apple-tea
10:47 < Mike1> thanks :)
10:47 < deadOwl> you're welcome
11:13 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@p3EE1E223.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:13 < jsaw> re
11:16 < deadOwl> hi jsaw 
11:17 < jsaw> hi deadOwl 
11:28 -!- martin_ [~martin@141.64.23.132] has quit ("bye bye")
11:39 * deadOwl is going to shoot a stupid windows-dau!
11:39 -!- clifford_away is now known as clifford
11:39 < deadOwl> hi clifford 
11:39 < clifford> hi owl.
11:39 < Mike1> greetings clifford
11:40 < clifford> hi Mike1
11:41 < jsaw> bbl
11:42 < cchamilt> clifford:Answer?
11:43 < clifford> I had not much time to think about it - bu i think its better to leave the file list unmodified.
11:43 < cchamilt> Sounds OK for now, and mine -f fixes everything anyway...
11:43 < clifford> usually the exclude patterns are something used system-wide (imo)
11:44 < clifford> so it doesn't hurt that mine thinks that those files are "modified" - it would try installing the new versions anyway..
11:45 < cchamilt> It should be, but blindcoder noticed that x needs .a's for execution. So maybe it might be a little package dependent.
11:46 < cchamilt> That is the only one exception that we know of.
11:47 < clifford> what's about doing it the rsync-way using include and exclude-pattern ?
11:47 < daja77> moin
11:47 < clifford> the first matching pattern is used. if no pattern matches (default behavior), the file will be installed.
11:47 < clifford> moin daja77.
11:48 < cchamilt> I had some include attempts, but I didn't test it.  Just wanted excludes working.  includes should be easy.
11:49 < clifford> whats about e.g. "-x +usr/X11/lib/modules/*.a" for include patterns
11:50 < cchamilt> Just do an inclusive check inside the exclusive check.
11:50 < clifford> (an "-" at the beginning of an exclude pattern would be optional)
11:50 < blindcoder> *yawn* g'morning
11:50 < cchamilt> Hmm.
11:50 < cchamilt> Hi blindcoder
11:51 < cchamilt> hi daja77, hi all :)
11:51 < cchamilt> OK, so I do a if char[0] is + then ...
11:51 < daja77> hi cchamilt & blindy
11:52 < daja77> yeah killing svn via ctrl-c works sometimes
11:52 < clifford> cchamilt: yup. s.th. like that.
11:53 < cchamilt> killing svn up wrecks the whole directory in my experience.
11:53 < cchamilt> clifford: OK I will try to whip up a version tonight.
11:55 < cchamilt> Should gasgui have options for this?
12:01 < jsaw> re
12:02 < daja77> wb jsaw 
12:03 < jsaw> hi daja77, hi all
12:04 < deadOwl> moin daja77 
12:05 < daja77> hi owl, hmm even dead ppl talking to me
12:08 < blindcoder> daja77: You see dead people :)
12:08 < deadOwl> *hrhr*
12:08 < daja77> this is a feature i guess
12:09 * cchamilt sees melodramatic people!
12:09 < deadOwl> hehe
12:09 < daja77> cchamilt: when looking into the mirror? *running*
12:10 < cchamilt> ouch
12:10 < daja77> just wondering :)
12:11 < cchamilt> Well if I didnt complain here...
12:11 < cchamilt> :)
12:11 < daja77> hehe
12:11 < deadOwl> *rotfl* 
12:12 * deadOwl thinks about sending a pdf called "nieten in nadelstreifen" to the managers here... 
12:12 * Mike1 learning about bittorrent
12:12 < daja77> hi Mike1 
12:13 < Mike1> hello Daniel :)
12:18 -!- jsaw2 [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:18 -!- jsaw2 [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has quit (Client Quit)
12:26 < clifford> cchamilt: about gasgui: should be done _after_ rocket is implemented because the exclude patterns should go to /etc/rocket.conf ..
12:28 < cchamilt> OK. 
12:28 * cchamilt still wants mine to do everything like emerge.
12:29 < cchamilt> How do you do variable expansion in a Makefile (ie. in the line not when the variable is used)
12:30 < cchamilt> I want to do a CFLAGS=$CFLAGS ... type thing and get recursive variables instead.
12:34 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@p50802EAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:36 -!- cytrinox` [~cytrinox@p213.54.44.98.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:39 < clifford> cchamilt: "rocket emerge" will do it.
12:46 < cchamilt> I know, but it would be nice to simplify. ie one program that would do everything.
12:47 -!- netrunner [~andreas@p50802653.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:47 < clifford> yes. that will be rocket (like e.g. apt-* in debian).
12:47 < cchamilt> and we should not refer to someone elses distro, ala emerge.
12:47 < clifford> mine will be just the low-level tool in the background.
12:49 < clifford> "rocket emerge" will just build and install a package and all it's dependencies.
12:49 < clifford> to emerge seams to be a good verb for describing the process (imo) - independent of it's prior usage in other environments.
12:49 < cchamilt> Yes, but we should call it something other than emerge.
12:50 < cchamilt> Hmm. need a thesaurus
12:51 < clifford> bbl
12:52 -!- cytrinox`- [~cytrinox@p213.54.49.116.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:53 < cchamilt> heck, it could be just install.
12:54 < daja77> call bmerge, sounds like business ...
12:54 < cchamilt> emerge is to appear from hiding.
12:54 < daja77> call it
12:54 < cchamilt> emerge is hardly the right word. kind of strange gentoo used it.
12:55 < cchamilt> Unless we are wood elves.
12:57 < cchamilt> heh how about derive. To draw or receive, as from a source...
12:58 < blindcoder> that would give "Don't drink and derive" a whole new meaning :)
13:00 < cchamilt> Damn, the lexical part of my brain is still on her way home.
13:01 < jsaw> some words gathered from www.dict.org and dict.leo.org: join,unite,arise,connect,splice,link,bind,fuse,combine,...
13:01 < daja77> your brain has female parts?
13:02 < blindcoder> why not simply "build"?
13:02 < cchamilt> daja77: I subcontract that part out...
13:03 < daja77> hmm brain outsourcing, nice
13:03 < cchamilt> build would be good to 'compile a local source tarball'
13:03 < cchamilt> install would be good to 'install a local or remote binary'
13:05 < cchamilt> update would be good to 'automatically sync with current rock and download/build new source if available'
13:05 < cchamilt> updateall would of course do a 'make world' like equivalent.
13:05 < daja77> maybe we should invent a new word, that would make us leet
13:06 < cchamilt> how about build-from-mirror
13:07 < cchamilt> we could drop the hyphens once it becomes common english.
13:08 < cchamilt> clifford:? What do we do about glibc updates when we update a whole system?
13:09 < daja77> hmm maybe we should call that break-the-system
13:09 < daja77> just kidding
13:09 < cchamilt> You know, an updateall would actually have to take place in a chroot. Then do an install using statically linked tools.
13:10 < cchamilt> daja77:Well rock seems to do that as we 'learn'.
13:10 < daja77> :))
13:11 < cchamilt> New glibc's require an immediate reboot to restore proper functionality on a live system.
13:14 -!- linDude [~muhu@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #rocklinux
13:14 < jsaw> cchamilt: AFAICS, rpm renames libs, unlinks them and the installs the new lib. But I don't know if this also works with libc...
13:15 < cchamilt> jsaw: We do that too (thanks to earlier thoughts on clean glibc updates). But that just gets glibc installed, not functional.
13:16 < cchamilt> Everything requires glibc, but running programs using dynamic libs will use the old in memory glibc against those libs.
13:16 < cchamilt> When a new executable is called, it uses the new glibc and tries to then use the old in memory dynamic libs.
13:17 < cchamilt> Chaos insues. or segfaults at least.
13:18 < cchamilt> Some stuff is clean if it only uses glibc libs, so we can safely reboot.  But not many other things will function in that state.
13:18 < jsaw> cchamilt: could we simply store the libc somewhere and install it after the next reboot?
13:19 < cchamilt> No cause it has to be in place to be properly built against by the new packages.
13:19 < cchamilt> So we do what BSD does.
13:20 < cchamilt> We do a standard chroot build, then change to a special single user mode and install using static tools on top of the old system.
13:21 < cchamilt> Or at least we WILL have to do this, since currently we don't.
13:21 -!- hackeron_ [~hackeron@81-86-159-146.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #rocklinux
13:21 < cchamilt> Non glibc updatealls could be done live.
13:22 < jsaw> cchamilt: can the glibc be installed in /usr/lib for live compilation and later moved to /lib?
13:23 < cchamilt> Dynamic linking is flaky in this way for not just glibc, but it should be safe for a live update 99.99% of the time.
13:24 < hackeron_> esden: hey, I was recommeded to come to you with my question about LCDs... I bought a simple parallel 16x2 LCD to show CPU load and temprature.. but I'm having trouble.. when I echo something > /dev/lcd it either clears screen or shows a cube... I can however use some ascii commands to draw a cube at home position, but moving it to left or right does not reacts :(.. maybe you could help in some way?
13:25 < blindcoder> personally, I think glibc should be blacklisted for auto-update
13:25 < cchamilt> It isn't just about doing the compilation while two glibc's exist.  The build chain/install tools will be in limbo about what they link with.  It would be unclear how stable/complete the installs wouldbe.
13:26 < blindcoder> It is possible to just Build-Pkg glibc (done that a few times) but some programs have to be rebuilt after that (apache for example)
13:27 < blindcoder> also, cdrecord and cdrdao didn't build anymore at all
13:27 < cchamilt> blindcoder: Yes, a blacklist idea might not be bad for now.  building glibc is a gamble that usually works.
13:27 < Mike1> *yawn*
13:28 < cchamilt> I had a similar problem with somethings not building or building correctly.  I rebooted and rebuilt the build chain against the new glibc and it came back.
13:29 < blindcoder> cchamilt: yes. also, there ARE some incompatibilites between at least glibc 2.2.5 anid 2.3.1 that I've noticed (malloc_usable_* was present in 225 but not in 231)
13:30 < cchamilt> I did 2.1.3 to 2.2.4 safely. I did do a 2.2.5 to 2.3.1, but it required rebuilding everything afterwards and the box is still flaky.
13:31 < blindcoder> hehe, I had to do a chroot to a ROCK build/*/root to write CDs after update to 231 :)
13:33 -!- dvala [~HjuT@c-af4272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #rocklinux
13:36 -!- hackeron_ [~hackeron@81-86-159-146.dsl.pipex.com] has quit ("Lost terminal")
13:39 -!- jsaw_ [~jsaw@p3EE1E29D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:42 < clifford> imo emerge is a good word for describing the process of analyzing the dependency structure and building everything required.
13:43 < clifford> install has an entire differend meaning and is also already reserved for installing pre-built packages in the stone proposal.
13:44 < clifford> "build" would not refer to the dependency analysis in any way ...
13:44 < cchamilt> emerge is the entire build system of gentoo, which has a different implication.  And the word has barely anything to do with that process.
13:45 < cchamilt> a package manager must do dependencies, it is not a feature nor a thing necessary to highlight.
13:46 < clifford> The process of syncing all pacages wit hthe recent version shou;d be "upgrade" and not "update" to make migration easier for debian users.
13:47 < cchamilt> upgrade is fine.
13:47 < clifford> cchamilt: where should be the problem with updating glibc? (other than the sysvinit think I opend a flyspray ticket for)
13:47 < clifford> <cchamilt> New glibc's require an immediate reboot to restore proper functionality on a live system.
13:47 < clifford> ... that's wrong.
13:48 < cchamilt> It isnt in my experience.  Things that were running will still run, but trying to run new programs may fail.
13:49 < clifford> then you made something worng. I've done already a few glibc updates on a running system without rebooting.
13:50 < clifford> the shared lib problem you described doesn't exist because all shares work on inode-base and not on filename base. so programs using the old and the new glibc can run at the same time without any implications.
13:50 < cchamilt> It looked good to me for a few days too. But then I tried to restart some daemons.
13:51 < clifford> there are in some cases problems - but they don't go away when the system is rebooted.
13:53 < cchamilt> Yes, some things required rebuilds later when I did try to update some packages.  But rebooting brought somethings back up. 
13:54 < cchamilt> I think it has to do with linking some of the glibc libraries other than libc.
13:56 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@p3EE1E223.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:56 < cchamilt> I could diagnose it nor am I that capable. I just rebooted and prayed and then things came back...
13:57 < clifford> hmm.. doesn't match my expiriences with leafing the old library inode unmodified and just creating a new one.
13:57 < clifford> however: black-listing some packages for automated updates is in general a good idea..
13:59 < cchamilt> I know that switching gcc's is not that safe either.
14:01 < clifford> if you remove the old libstdc++, yes. (that's why we don't remove files when updating packages)
14:01 < cchamilt> It tends to make bad executables, but after redoing the build chain it worked.
14:02 < clifford> in all other cases it can cause troubles when trying to build c++ apps which are linked against c++ libs built with the older compiler.
14:02 < cchamilt> Just building gcc3.2.3 on to a 2.95.3.
14:02 < cchamilt> Yep, something even required e2fsprogs rebuilt.
14:04 < cchamilt> Maybe we should just allow for a 'make world' and the whole single user static update.
14:05 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-072.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:05 -!- dvala [~HjuT@c-af4272d5.01-94-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ("booooo")
14:33 < deadOwl> assholes, as they live
14:35 < mnemoc> ?
14:36 < deadOwl> mnemoc: differences between my "beloved" trainer and me - like almost every day
14:37 < deadOwl> open your mouth and tell them, that you want to _learn_ and/or doing something for your training and/or school, and you can be sure, that you will be kicked into your ass
14:37 < deadOwl> FSCK! i want to die!
14:39 < Mike1> hola mnemoc
14:39 < Mike1> deadOwl: you can't die sorry.
14:39 < mnemoc> trainer?
14:40 < mnemoc> hola Mike1 
14:40 < deadOwl> Mike1: i can. normally. but with my fscking luck i just will be hurt,  not dying.
14:40 < deadOwl> mnemoc: trainer, instructor, supervisor
14:41 < Mike1> there isn't such thing as luck.
14:41 < Mike1> mnemoc: long time not seen you 
14:41 < mnemoc> yep :)
14:42 < deadOwl> Mike1: what then?
14:42 < mnemoc> live your fscking life
14:42 < deadOwl> mnemoc: why??? what for?
14:42 * Mike1 sick of this.
14:43 < deadOwl> Mike1: ...
14:43 < deadOwl> then ignore me or do what you can't leave!
14:44 < Mike1> mnemoc: how is ur daughter?
14:45 < mnemoc> kicking my head =(
14:45 -!- deadOwl [~owl@aszlig.net] has quit ("leckt mich doch alle am a***")
14:45 < Mike1> wee! ur daughter rulez :)
14:45 < mnemoc> :\ ... but you are right
14:46 < mnemoc> i can't imagine two of them kicking my head 8-\
14:46 < Mike1> lol
14:50 -!- Mike1 [~mike@ip140-62.ct.co.cr] has left #rocklinux ("Client Exiting")
14:53 -!- trekkie3k [~k3t@pD950289F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:57 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.4.104] has quit ("Lost terminal")
14:58 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.4.104] has joined #rocklinux
14:59 < mnemoc> damn screen =(
14:59 < rolla> re
14:59 < mnemoc> re rolla 
15:03 < mnemoc> aaaargh... can boot from cdrw :'(
15:11 < daja77> hi rolla & mnemoc 
15:13 < mnemoc> hi daja77 
15:15 < rolla> the world is going to hell
15:15 < rolla> https://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/10/10/bmg.protection.reut/index.html
15:17 < mnemoc> we are there from looong time ago
15:18 < mnemoc> the whole patents issue is medieval
15:20 < mnemoc> can distribute the most used browser just because someone had the idea of plugins before is stupid
15:21 < cchamilt> Emerge replacements - import, invoke, evoke, convene, convoke, amass, converge. Notice that any of these words ACTUALLY mean what I think drobbins was getting at (unlike emerge).
15:22 < mnemoc> having an open discussion about any technology is good for the technology because it's the only way to get better
15:22 < cchamilt> agglomerate (geological ref but too long)
15:23 < mnemoc> cchamilt: *we* have a big problem with the english language
15:24 < mnemoc> agglomerate SUCKS
15:25 < cchamilt> Yes, agglomerate does.
15:29 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: daja77, linDude, [anders], clifford, praenti, th_, Freak, hannes, trekkie3k, nookie,  (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
15:31 < cytrinox`> moin
15:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: snyke, aszlig, [anders], mistik1, mnemoc, Aard, praenti, hannes, sjefen, rxr (+13 more)
15:40 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: daja77, linDude, [anders], praenti, hannes, th_, Freak, cchamilt, nookie, trekkie3k,  (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
15:41 -!- Netsplit over, joins: snyke, aszlig, cytrinox`, [anders], mistik1, mnemoc, Aard, praenti, hannes, sjefen (+14 more)
15:42 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cytrinox`
15:45 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: [anders], mistik1, mnemoc
15:45 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mnemoc, mistik1, [anders]
15:46 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: [anders], daja77, linDude, hannes, th_, Freak, cchamilt, nookie, trekkie3k, blindcoder,  (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
15:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: aszlig, [anders], mistik1, mnemoc, hannes, sjefen, rxr, blindcoder, fake, SMP (+10 more)
15:49 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: praenti, Aard, snyke
15:50 -!- Netsplit over, joins: snyke, praenti, Aard
15:56 < mnemoc> yes!! i love stable networks :(
15:56 < daja77> hehe
15:59 < daja77> <- hungry
16:01 < mnemoc> damn machine!! it doesn't boot from cdrw because it doesn't boot from anywhere :(
16:02 < mnemoc> neither this cool-original-win2kadvsrv-cd
16:02 < daja77> i would call it broken
16:18 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
16:20 -!- nookie_ [~n00kie@M366P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
16:22 -!- scoopex [~marc@td9091b6c.adsl.terralink.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:23 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M353P005.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:47 -!- k3t_ [~k3t@pD90056DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
17:03 -!- trekkie3k [~k3t@pD950289F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:07 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-072.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
18:29 < rolla> yawn
18:37 -!- martin_ [~martin@pD9E79347.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:16 -!- nookie_ [~n00kie@M366P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ("Lost terminal")
19:50 * A-Tui is away: Estoy ocupado
19:50 * A-Tui is back (gone 00:00:04)
20:02 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M366P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
20:17 < blindcoder> hi hi and rehi
20:21 < esden> hi all
20:22 < esden> I think now is a better time to ask that ... is anyone reading flyspray?
20:22 < blindcoder> right now?
20:22 < esden> no ... anytime 
20:23 < blindcoder> not really... not much time for rock atm
20:23 < blindcoder> had to make the Aliasverwaltung and other things
20:23 < esden> yes I knaw
20:23 < esden> ow
20:23 < esden> but I ask myself if it has any use to write new topics in flyspray
20:24 < blindcoder> Only if you alse write a mail to rock-linux IMO
20:24 < blindcoder> esden: when will you next be in IN?
20:24 < esden> blindcoder: guess ;)
20:25 < blindcoder> *sigh* wednesday?
20:25 < esden> good! 1000points
20:26 < blindcoder> thought so...
20:29 < esden> ;)
20:29 < netrunne1> *chrrreee*
20:30 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
20:30 < esden> ugl? hi netrunner 
20:31 < blindcoder> hi netrunner 
20:34 < netrunner> grr I hate to work. get up tired, come home tired, fall to bed, alarm rings, tired, get up to work, tired :(
20:37 < blindcoder> I'm sitting at home since almost 2 weeks now
20:37 < blindcoder> and no idea when this will change >_<
20:37 < netrunner> blindcoder: got kicked`
20:37 < netrunner> ?
20:37 < blindcoder> nah, contract with SIEMENS ran out, new contract not signed yet
20:37 < blindcoder> paid special-vacation
20:37 < netrunner> hm, sitting at home and getting paid ... don't complain, or we'll switch!
20:37 < blindcoder> I'm bored to death
20:38 < blindcoder> I even cleaned up behind esden already :)
20:38 * netrunner would never ever clean up esden's behind.
20:38 < netrunner> brrr
20:38 < netrunner> what an imagination :(
20:38 < blindcoder> not esden's behind
20:38 < blindcoder> behind esden!
20:39 < esden> ROFL
20:39 * netrunner wonders on which side of the river blindcoder lives
20:39 < esden> netrunner: you are terrible
20:39 < netrunner> esden: yeah, you probably liked it, hey?
20:39 < blindcoder> I'm drowning in it
20:39 < blindcoder> so, neither one
20:39 < blindcoder> the girls don't like me, and true love exists only between men.
20:39 < netrunner> blindcoder: kewl, have one of those water proof laptops?
20:40 < blindcoder> nah, I'm communicating via a DIY-built-Human_Brain_Interface
20:40 < blindcoder> Unfortunately, I lost the build-instructions
20:40 < esden> hrm ... not good blindcoder 
20:41 < esden> I want such an interface too ...
20:43 < blindcoder> esden: mine is mine! I'll enver give up on the uniquen experience of anime-watching with it!
20:44 < esden> argl
20:44 < esden> you are mean
20:45 < blindcoder> thank you.
20:45 < esden> de nada
20:45 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-072.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:53 < cchamilt> what causes sig 11 segfaults?
20:53 < blindcoder> stray pointers
20:53 < cchamilt> would that include bad entry points into libraries?
20:54 < blindcoder> hmm... yes, I think so.
20:54 < blindcoder> at least it did with cdrecord here
20:55 < cchamilt> I hope so, I only have limited ability to poke around.
20:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9831.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:00 < tcr> moin all
21:00 < cchamilt> hi
21:02 * tcr listening to Carl Orff's Carmina Burana
21:03 -!- linDude [~muhu@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:03 < tcr> ... meanwhile copying some file to some disks (after having split it up) ...
21:04 < tcr> I think I better get my burner working again
21:04 < cchamilt> Any body understand gdb?
21:05 < tcr> y0
21:06 * tcr brb (1min)
21:07 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-072.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
21:09 < cchamilt> I am wondering how I can locate this vile memcpy that has cored my apache.
21:09 < cchamilt> 0x404eac2c in memcpy () at memcpy:-1
21:10 < cchamilt> -1      memcpy: No such file or directory.
21:10 < cchamilt>         in memcpy
21:10 < tcr> gimme the whole backtrace output in a query
21:46 -!- dreamind [dreamind@IP-213157026015.dialin.heagmedianet.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:46 < dreamind> Hi
21:59 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-072.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:08 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has joined #rocklinux
22:08 < LocalHero> hi all
22:12 < martin_> gn8 all
22:17 -!- martin_ [~martin@pD9E79347.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #rocklinux ("bye bye")
22:21 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has quit ()
22:30 -!- scoopex [~marc@td9091b6c.adsl.terralink.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:41 * A-Tui is away: dinning...
22:48 -!- k3t_ [~k3t@pD90056DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("$default_quit_message")
22:59 < cytrinox`> gn8
23:10 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has joined #rocklinux
23:20 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has quit ("I like core dumps")
23:38 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:47 -!- kasc_ [~kasc@dsl-213-023-065-101.arcor-ip.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:49 < daja77> re
23:52 -!- kasc_ [~kasc@dsl-213-023-067-085.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
23:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9831.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("gn8 all")
--- Log closed Tue Oct 14 00:00:37 2003