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--- Log opened Sat Mar 13 00:00:31 2004 00:11 -!- A-Tui [~aitor@cable74a018.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux 00:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EABB1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:29 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@ppp74.dialin.bi.marcant.net] has joined #rocklinux 00:30 < holyolli> moin 00:30 < A-Tui> hi holyolli 00:30 < holyolli> hi A-Tui 00:33 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@ppp74.dialin.bi.marcant.net] has quit (Client Quit) 01:07 < darix> btw: svn 1.0.1 is out 01:19 -!- bluefire [bluefire@pD952281D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("leaving") 02:34 -!- cap [~cap@p213.54.111.213.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux 03:02 -!- blindcoder [~blindcode@pD9E4F1B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 03:02 -!- blindy [~blindcode@pD958FBF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Nick collision from services.) 03:02 -!- blindcoder is now known as blindy 03:35 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-077-105.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux 03:37 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 03:49 -!- A-Tui [~aitor@cable74a018.usuarios.retecal.es] has quit ("Satanás, el infierno es demasiado dulce!") 03:52 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@pD9502DD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:15 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@p50803074.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux 04:16 -!- cap [~cap@p213.54.111.213.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit ("There is no spoon.") 04:32 -!- netrunner [~andreas@p5080243D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:42 -!- togg [~togg@pD9E5B7C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:48 -!- togg [~togg@pD95348EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 07:11 -!- Nebukadneza` [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-059-119.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux 07:28 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-077-105.arcor-ip.net] has quit (No route to host) 09:47 -!- cytrinox` [~dj-nail2@p213.54.168.198.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux 09:48 -!- cytrinox [~dj-nail2@p213.54.137.55.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:00 < daja77> moin 10:57 < laga_> moin daja77 10:58 < daja77> moin laga_ 10:59 < daja77> first machine is running rocklinux again 10:59 * daja77 happy 10:59 < laga_> my laptop is running rock linux too...beta 6... 10:59 * laga_ not happy 11:02 < daja77> running a 2.0 prebuild here 11:04 * netrunne1 burning 2.0 isos 11:04 * laga_ is going to download the 2.0 isos 11:06 < laga_> btw, which xfree is in 2.0? 4.4? 11:09 < daja77> cu later 11:11 < laga_> cya 11:23 -!- Nebukadneza` [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-059-119.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting") 11:39 < cytrinox`> moin 11:41 -!- alan_ [alanw@82-68-155-89.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:52 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has joined #rocklinux 12:06 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has quit ("Leaving") 12:14 < rxr> laga_: 4.4-rc3 or so 13:01 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@p508BA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 13:17 -!- jsaw_ [~jsaw@p508BAEE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:42 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-059-119.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux 14:02 -!- alan [alanw@82-68-155-89.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #rocklinux 14:07 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.39] has joined #rocklinux 14:08 < mnemoc> moin 14:34 -!- laga__ [laga@p508AF7B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 14:42 -!- laga_ [laga@p508AF9A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:43 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-059-119.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting") 14:49 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-059-119.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux 15:28 * netrunne1 would like to add the ntfsprogs to bootdisk. As XP and 2k are widely spread today, resizing a ntfs partition to install rock next to it would be a nice feature. 15:28 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner 15:30 -!- A-Tui [~aitor@cable74a018.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux 15:31 < A-Tui> hola 15:31 -!- t3k|mobile [~k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 15:35 < mnemoc> netrunner: for cd-boot there is no problem but what about floppies? 15:38 < netrunner> mnemoc: the customer pcs that ship with xp have no floppy drive anyway ;) 15:38 < mnemoc> =) 15:40 -!- tfing [~tfing@APoitiers-103-1-4-231.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #rocklinux 15:40 < tfing> hi 15:41 < tfing> does someone has a 2.0.0-minimal.iso available ? 15:41 < tfing> (have) 15:44 < mnemoc> i uploaded an almost-2.0.0-but-fixed-minimal to rene, but i don't know if we publish it 15:44 -!- pieass [~se@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:1add] has joined #rocklinux 15:46 < tfing> mnemoc: that would be fine as long as it boots 15:46 < mnemoc> it does 15:47 < pieass> should linux2.6+alsa+devfs run without any problems under rocklinux-2.0.0? 15:47 < tfing> hmm, url where i could pull it ? 15:48 < pieass> btw. hi. 15:48 < mnemoc> it's at gsmp.${whatever}-berlin.de but i'm not the one to make that public 15:49 < mnemoc> pieass, current stable don't support linux26-only machines, you need to use lx24-headers 15:50 < pieass> hmm, i've got a 3 cd-set desktop build on the linux-tag in chemnitz. 15:50 -!- khanbalochg [~Droot@203.175.64.181] has joined #rocklinux 15:51 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.39] has quit (Operation timed out) 15:51 < tfing> rxr: ping ? 15:51 < mnemoc> pieass: 2.0.0 (and 2.0.1) don't support it dou to kernel headers on user-space apps war, patches are available on submaster but not yet applied 15:52 < pieass> well, then i should use linux-2.4 and everything will be fine? 15:52 < mnemoc> yep 15:55 < tfing> mnemoc: rock-2.0.0-rc4-rev2366-pentium-mmx_cd1.iso <- is it that file ? 15:55 * A-Tui is away: /away 15:55 < mnemoc> uhm.... same revision, same opt 15:56 < mnemoc> where is it? 15:56 < tfing> https://drocklinux.dyndns.org/ftp/drock/stable/2.0.0-rc4/minimal/ 15:56 < tfing> that should suit me, i'll get it 15:57 < mnemoc> 4d47ee1e34e10aef202c399b6fdb91da <--- my md5 15:57 * mnemoc curious :) 15:58 < tfing> |:: cat rock-2.0.0-rc4-rev2366-pentium-mmx_cd1.iso.md5 15:58 < tfing> |7a4ca8e934211bd014b9782344a0d371 rock-2.0.0-rc4-rev2366-pentium-mmx_cd1.iso 15:58 < mnemoc> uhm 15:59 < tfing> i'll give the md5 of the iso file when the dl is over 16:22 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("ze ûda brí-tenkoR") 16:22 -!- t3k|mobile [~k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Leaving") 16:22 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 16:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9BB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 16:37 -!- alan [alanw@82-68-155-89.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ("Leaving") 16:38 < tcr> moin all 16:46 < pieass> hmm, is there no XFS support in linux-2.4? 16:48 < tcr> Not officially, unless it got backported in some recent version 16:48 < tcr> There's a working patch available though 16:50 < pieass> if i knew this before, i would have made my root ext3 or so.. 16:50 < tfing> tcr: it is available in 2.4.25 16:52 < tcr> tfing, nice. :) 16:52 < pieass> can i apply the patch from kernel.org against the kernel-source in /usr/src/linux-2.4.24-rock? 16:54 < pieass> ah, i see, therefore exists /usr/src/linux24-patches 16:55 < tcr> pieass, patch's option --dry-run becomes quite handy for this case 16:55 < pieass> ok, thanks. :) 16:57 -!- khanbalochg [~Droot@203.175.64.181] has quit (Client Quit) 17:39 < A-Tui> cu all 18:02 -!- alan [alanw@82-68-155-89.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #rocklinux 18:14 -!- pieass [~se@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:1add] has quit ("leaving") 19:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9BB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:05 < daja77> re 19:05 * daja77 wants to beat that person who disabled ppp support for isdn in rocklinux kernel 19:55 -!- cchamilt [~chatzilla@cm89.sigma51.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #rocklinux 19:55 < cchamilt> lo 19:56 < laga__> hi cchamilt 19:56 < daja77> hi cchamilt 19:57 < cchamilt> got 2.0.0|1 generic built through stage 9 with about 30 real errors. 19:59 < cchamilt> I wonder if anyone wants it since so much has been changed in the past few days. 19:59 < laga__> hmm. i'll try it tomorrow, maybe I can replicate this 20:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9BB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 20:11 < cchamilt> hi tcr 20:11 < cchamilt> tcr:you use tla for your home right? 20:17 < tcr> moin cchamilt 20:19 < tcr> cchamilt, I did so. Not currently (without any reason, had to rearrange some things here and haven't set it up again so far) 20:23 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has joined #rocklinux 20:26 < cchamilt> tcr:how did you commit stuff? 20:28 < tcr> cchamilt, Well you must adapt the naming conventions first 20:29 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("ze ûda brí-tenkoR") 20:29 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:29 < cchamilt> yes, what do you set them up as? also how do you get it to automatically add new files? 20:30 < tcr> I just set source to everything begining with a dot and a few directory names I want stored in arch (like private/) 20:31 < cchamilt> ok, so not everything then. I was wondering whether I should exclude names with spaces since it doesnt handle them. 20:31 < tcr> No, that's not accurate... I'm having private/ seperately under arch :) Stil you get what I mean 20:31 -!- t3k|mobile [~k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 20:31 < tcr> You have files with spaces in its names? 20:32 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has joined #rocklinux 20:32 < cchamilt> I want to put a filesystem under arch. hopefully no spaces, but it might encounter them. 20:33 < tcr> They will screw tla up. Though that's going to change quite soon, someone's working on it and the progress is getting in final state (afaik) 20:33 < cchamilt> thank god. 20:34 < tcr> Beware that tla ain't a backup tool 20:34 < cchamilt> so in arch, once the conventions are up, it can automatically add new files right? 20:34 < tcr> so putting a whole filesystem (ie. almost every file within that fs) does not make much sense 20:34 < cchamilt> Oh no, think arch being used as flist. 20:35 < tcr> cchamilt, tla can automatically recognize new added files if your tagging method is tagline. Also you must embedd a special tag within the first or last kB of that file 20:36 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:36 < cchamilt> must? 20:36 < cchamilt> how does arch support binaries correctly then? 20:36 < tcr> Yeah if you want that tla automatically recognizes them 20:37 < tcr> You must explicitely add 'em 20:37 < tcr> See https://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/ID_2dtagging_20methods 20:37 < cchamilt> damn. I really need a vc system that will just pickup new files. 20:40 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has joined #rocklinux 20:41 < cchamilt> i think names is what i want really. 20:41 < tcr> cchamilt, that would be silly for any vc 20:41 * A-Tui is away: A galopar, a galopar, hasta enterrarlos en el mar! 20:41 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:41 < cchamilt> maybe one built only to be used to store a program's source. but not a general version control system. 20:44 < cchamilt> See what I want to do is not put a distribution into a set of packages. I want a whole distribution, and then changesets. 20:44 < tcr> cchamilt, hm I didn't think of names 20:44 < tcr> (as tagging scheme) 20:44 < tcr> that should do what you want 20:44 < cchamilt> Kind of like windows update but for linux. 20:46 < cchamilt> Put /etc under a separate one that the user can make revisions, and the root under one that can be officially revisioned. So changesets can be pushed or pulled to users. 20:47 < cchamilt> Simple version numbering and detailed changesets would be all a user needs to select the right changeset for his needs. 20:47 < cchamilt> sorry /changesets/changelogs/1 20:48 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has joined #rocklinux 20:49 < tcr> re (shortly away) 20:51 < tcr> cchamilt, Hmm. 20:52 < tcr> I don't I understand you... my first impression was that you wanted to create a sandbox, but that doesn't have anything to do with updating 20:52 < tcr> +think 20:53 < cchamilt> I want to make appliances that can have their software updated(and therefore secure for idiots to use). And since I can spec the hardware in the appliance, I can make fairly specific distributions. 20:54 < cchamilt> So, I can send changesets to the appliances when bugs/security holes occur and tla can 'sync' to that version. If a user wants to control it or to go back a revision, then they can too. 20:55 < cchamilt> If a user screws up their /etc, then this will also have a mechanism in place to go back before the screwup. 20:56 < tcr> Well, but /etc shouldn't contain binary files 20:57 < cchamilt> No, but it may contain screwups. I want / and /etc under two separate repositories in tla. 20:57 < tcr> so tagline may very well something for you (which would have the advantage that only tagged files get in the archive, not newly added files by third party tools the user installed) 20:57 < cchamilt> good point 20:58 < cchamilt> I was thinking of integrating rock and tla so that tla could handle rock installs. I wonder if I could set it up to ignore non-rock changes. 20:59 < tcr> So if I summary what you intend into one line, it's that you want to use tla as synchronization tool for your clients? 20:59 < cchamilt> Yes. 20:59 < cchamilt> Linux doesnt have any real tool to do this now. 21:00 < tcr> Not a bad idea. The thing is what happens if conflicts occurr? 21:01 < tcr> On the other hand 21:01 < cchamilt> Yep. That is why I want users to be able to revision. If there are conflicts, maybe it can warn someone to fix it manually. OR, I could just forbid people using this to screw with things... 21:01 < tcr> Ah 21:02 < cchamilt> It still has to have hooks to run lilo, reboot, restart daemons, so it wont just be tla. But tla can be the backbone. 21:02 < tcr> Well, the thing is that users won't probably edit those lines manually (if I understand your target publicum), but will use conf tools 21:02 < tcr> So conflicts are probably a dilemma, because they know a shit about it 21:03 < cchamilt> Hopefully, and maybe the config files can be handled so that they space variables apart,etc (easier diffing). So conflicts can be easily fixed. 21:04 < cchamilt> Fixed variable order would be good too, though that is getting draconian. 21:04 < tcr> I wonder 21:05 < tcr> when anyhting in /etc has ever to be updated anyway 21:05 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.108] has quit (Connection reset by peer) 21:05 < cchamilt> Heck, if it gets a conflict, maybe they can just open a special ssh port and call home. 21:06 < cchamilt> I think /etc may change some. I dont want to limit the scope of the updates, though big changes in linux may be still hard to do incrementally. 21:06 < cchamilt> Right now, it is still pretty much that when libc changes, the whole thing needs reinstalled. 21:07 < tcr> I have no idea about update software... 21:08 < cchamilt> Thinking about it, I know that some mta's add more stuff to their configs. Otherwise /etc is pretty stable unless something like ssh making a new /etc/sshd directory occurs. 21:08 < cchamilt> Yeah, it is the one thing windows users always stick to linux when they know. 21:09 < cchamilt> No matter how easy apt-get or whatever is, it still is very manual and problematic. 21:09 < tcr> But there's a bunch of software for that kind out there 21:09 < cchamilt> Windows update when they dont screw up the patch, tends to work well. 21:10 < tcr> Because every distribution has a facility since it's so crucial 21:10 < tcr> I don't know. Do you want something just for you clients? or for potential everybody? 21:10 < cchamilt> Yes, but it is the idea of grannies rebuilding kernels and the idea of reconfiging packages and untested version problems (which bin distros have more than we do). 21:11 < cchamilt> If it worked well, I would not mind everybody. However, much of the tool is going to probably be the system (me), not just the software. 21:12 < tcr> Hmm. 21:12 < cchamilt> I think linux should have automatic vc on /etc for actual users, and windows-update for just lusers. 21:13 < cchamilt> I was hoping to solve both. 21:13 < tcr> Absolutely. I think what we really want is vc capable filesystems 21:13 < cchamilt> I dont want to have people saying I want to control their linux, so I figure both ways is good. 21:14 < cchamilt> Yes, but their are none, only some crappy stuff for solaris and the quasi-vcing of coda/intermesso. 21:14 < cchamilt> Maybe hook tla up to a userland fs module. 21:15 < tcr> I think using tla as backbone isn't bad all 21:15 < tcr> at all 21:15 < cchamilt> For each directory have a set of subdirs that do specific 'names' of branches and dates. 21:16 < tcr> Also tla could be used as a backbone for package management in general 21:16 < cchamilt> so I can get /bob (current) or /bob/012399122345 or /bob/BETA 21:16 < cchamilt> Yep, that is what i want. 21:17 < tcr> Oh. That's not what I got out 21:17 < cchamilt> Oh, you mean as replacements for individual gems, yes that too. Though I dont have a specific user. 21:17 < tcr> figured out 21:17 < tcr> no idea what the right expression is 21:18 < tcr> Yeah I meant as replacement for apt-get etc 21:18 < tcr> So I was right that this isn't directly what you want? 21:18 < cchamilt> Yeah, I thought of that first as the flist replacement for it would be easier I thought. 21:19 < cchamilt> But, eventually I just want across the board changeset to update all of /. 21:19 < cchamilt> So the cd would just install the initial checkout/mirror/whatever. 21:20 < tcr> Hmm as flist replacement... that makes big sense 21:20 < cchamilt> Making a userfs with tla though doesnt seem to be the same work as merging it as a rock flist replacement. 21:20 < tcr> because a flist file is just a very static database, tla would be much more dynamical 21:21 < tcr> But really what you want is explicit tagging then 21:21 < cchamilt> Ugh 21:21 < cchamilt> Explain 21:21 < tcr> All files are `tla added' during installation :) 21:22 < cchamilt> Yes, but the tagging would be monotonous wouldn't it? 21:22 < tcr> You must see that `tla add $foo' as an addition of an entry in the database 21:22 < cchamilt> rockrev-package-pkgver-file-.... 21:22 < tcr> The cool thing is that tla would keep track of moves 21:23 < tcr> so say you move /bin/bash to /bin/bash2.05 for some reason 21:23 < cchamilt> yeah, so updates could be interesting. 21:24 < tcr> So when you decide to delete the bash package, then /bin/bash2.05 is also deleted 21:24 < cchamilt> Sounds like install-wrapper should trigger tla. 21:24 < tcr> which were currently not possible with the static flist files 21:24 < tcr> install-wrapper? 21:25 < tcr> No. pkg-add resp. mine 21:25 < cchamilt> INSTALL-WRAPPER, you know the thing that rock copies files into the build directory with. 21:26 < cchamilt> Should do it in the build system. 21:26 < tcr> Yeah. but I see. we were talking cross eachother a bit :) 21:26 < tcr> I was talking about the installation of a package, you seemingle spoke about the build 21:26 < cchamilt> Your thinking post build, during install. 21:26 < tcr> Yep 21:27 < cchamilt> Yeah, I think it is easier to start the system in the build and just nudge flist completely out of the way. 21:27 < tcr> Let me think about the case during the build, what consequences that would mean 21:27 < cchamilt> Besides, rock already has a 'set' of tools there, this could be just another I hope. 21:28 < cchamilt> tla needs nothing but diff to build I think, so it can fit in the stage 1 easily. 21:29 < tcr> gnu diff, gnu patch and gnu tar 21:29 < cchamilt> I think build it at 0 to capture 1, then again in late part of 1 and then it is ready. 21:32 < rxr> rehi 21:32 < tcr> How do you mean that exactly as flist replacement, cchamilt? 21:32 < cchamilt> At the end. we would have the gems and the final archive too. 21:32 < tcr> final archive filled with what? 21:33 < cchamilt> flist monitors the files touched, tla does that too, so no need for both. 21:33 < cchamilt> final archive would be the tla archive of the root/. 21:33 < cchamilt> hi rxr 21:34 < cchamilt> tla does the find based scan I think. 21:35 < cchamilt> I was thinking of storing {arch} inside /var/adm/{arch} or similar on the live system. 21:37 < cchamilt> The question on my mind right now is how to capture root/etc in tla without tla revisioning in the main repository after install (as /etc should be in its own repository). 21:38 < tcr> Give me some time for thinking. I think I'm slowly arriving to your conclusion 21:38 < cchamilt> I guess it could do both repos at the same time during the build. 21:39 < cchamilt> Yeah, I spent days on it, and months pondering similar ideas. 21:39 < cchamilt> rxr: what do you think? 21:43 < tcr> That's not even silly. I mean that were not only a replacement for flist, but for the gems, too :) because you could use an arch changeset as package 21:44 < cchamilt> Yep, that was what I thought you meant a while back. Just commit per package, then go back and get each rev as a package. 21:44 < cchamilt> commit log could be whole desc for the package or something. 21:45 < tcr> Wonderful, you seem to grok what I mean. I just started to write my implicit thoughts down :) 21:45 < tcr> That's quite cool 21:46 < cchamilt> Yeah, well I am happy you know what I am saying to, Jocelyn has started staring into space when I try to discuss this with her. 21:46 < tcr> Heh.. 8) 21:47 < rxr> cchamilt: I would need to read scrollback and have not much time now ... 21:47 < cchamilt> No prob. Think revision control as flist/mine replacement. 21:47 < tcr> cchamilt, guess what there're people who intend to extend arch's changelog to contain dependance metainformation and stuff. wait a sec 21:48 < tcr> That fits *greatly* in our little picture 21:48 < cchamilt> probably parallel thoughts. 21:48 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.42] has joined #rocklinux 21:49 < tcr> cchamilt, not really but anyway take a look at this https://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/Discuss_20Arch_20features_2fLogicDependcyTracking 21:49 < cchamilt> How do they get dependency metadata or what dependencies... OK 21:50 < tcr> By adding special tags to the patch-log 21:50 < tcr> See 1.3.1 21:52 < cchamilt> that is still useful and may actually be used for our deps... 21:52 < cchamilt> that is neat, and strangely non-parallel solving of same problem. 21:53 < cchamilt> So we need to name our package changesets, then run through the .cache file marking them as deps if this is added to arch. 21:53 < tcr> Using tla as backbone for package management is nothing new btw :) tomlord stated several times that he could imagine something 21:53 < tcr> like that 21:54 < cchamilt> Yeah, I was stuck on whole fs ideas for the past few months, so it took me awhile to get this idea. 21:55 < cchamilt> It ends up the same, but this looks clean and easily implementable. 21:56 < cchamilt> i wonder what others will think, if they love mine or hate this idea, etc. 21:56 * tcr just got something to drink. he needs a milk drink after this thought crafting 21:57 < tcr> The question is whom you're gonna ask 21:57 < cchamilt> maybe we could get tla people on board rock or vice versa. 21:58 < cchamilt> Yes. I am not sure myself. 21:58 < rxr> tla is what? 21:59 < cchamilt> we are thinking about tla for this 'package manager' as it has some good features. 21:59 < rxr> tla == ? 21:59 < cchamilt> tom lord's arch. the actual arch repo system. 21:59 < tcr> cchamilt, it's pretty much orthogonal to rock 21:59 < cchamilt> he changed it due to fork issues. 22:00 < tcr> what's changed? 22:00 < cchamilt> yeah, but rxr and clifford love svn, so .... 22:00 < tcr> with orthogonal I meant quite independent 22:00 < cchamilt> no tcr, I mean the historical change to tla from 'arch' 22:00 < tcr> That's misinformation then :) 22:00 < tcr> there were never that "arch" 22:01 < tcr> because that's more the concept 22:01 < cchamilt> yes, but everyone thinks that way as arch is now tla 22:01 < cchamilt> for the most part... 22:02 < tcr> not really, there's darc, monotone and ArX besides tla 22:02 < tcr> darcs actually 22:02 < cchamilt> well this idea is orthogonal, but it going to heavily use rock parts even if it is a 'fork' of sorts. 22:02 < cchamilt> and i would want blessings... 22:03 < cchamilt> yes, but tla is the one moving forward the best. 22:03 * A-Tui is away: Cuando la fiesta nacional yo me quedo en la cama igual! Qué la música militar nunco me supo despertar! 22:04 < tcr> I copied the log for mnemoc, because I think he's interested in it, since he told me yesterday he too has his own ideas about pkg management and stuff. 22:04 < cchamilt> if the idea works, then we should be in a position to merge back or become a rock option. I would like to try to implement it as a rock option from the beginning. 22:04 < cchamilt> yes, I have whined to him about things to. He would be onboard i think. 22:05 < cchamilt> It is just that rxr and clifford are rather invested in svn, that is all my real worries. 22:28 -!- Droot [~Droot@203.175.64.42] has quit () 22:41 < daja77> erhm anyone tried to startup cups on a recent rock? 22:42 < cchamilt> no, not one built in this year. 22:42 < rxr> hi daja77 22:43 < rxr> daja77: what the prob with cups ? 22:43 < daja77> it needs ages for startup 22:43 < daja77> hi rxr 22:43 < rxr> each time or just the first time ß 22:43 < rxr> s/ß/?/ 22:43 < daja77> tried the first time right now 22:43 * rxr need to lear to press the shift key a bit deeper ... 22:44 < rxr> the first tiem always scans and caches all ppd files 22:44 < rxr> this is cups default - no rock modification 22:44 * rxr also hates this ... 22:44 < daja77> <- installed rock on all computers at his parent's 22:44 < daja77> :) 22:44 < rxr> ;-) 22:44 < daja77> 3 machines 22:45 * netrunner wanted to install rock today but missed ntfsprogs on bootdisk :/ 22:45 < netrunner> re btw :) 22:45 < daja77> killed 2 win98 installs on the way ... 22:45 < rxr> hi netrunner 22:45 < rxr> jups - I also only support ROCK at my parents ... 22:45 * netrunner pats daja on his back 22:45 < daja77> hehe 22:45 < rxr> (which resulting in deleting non-functional Win~1 on the way too ... 22:46 < daja77> they never booted into windows anyway 22:46 < netrunner> If I had an equivalent to taxman for Linux, I'd also move my mom's to linux. 22:46 < daja77> netrunner: my father has linux sw for that 22:46 < rxr> there is a commercial tax thing for linux ... 22:48 < daja77> localhost:631 still points to the documentation instead of the interface 22:48 < cchamilt> I think I am going to sleep finally. 22:48 < daja77> n8 cchamilt 22:48 < netrunner> daja77: this is something odd I also noticed, try adding /admin or so 22:48 < cchamilt> n8 all 22:48 < rxr> daja77: yes - we should aks the cups guys - and patch this away if they pretend to like this 22:48 < rxr> n8 cchamilt 22:48 < netrunner> n8 cchamilt 22:49 < netrunner> rxr: the qt thing, was that my fault? if so, sorry. 22:49 < rxr> netrunner: no - I messed it up ... 22:49 < rxr> (I guess) 22:53 < netrunner> may I submit a patch that includes ntfsprogs in bootdisk? they have 0.6 MB. or at least ntfsresize, 32K 22:53 < rxr> netrunner: go for it - but I would rather apply that for .2 or so 22:54 < netrunner> np, I just actually need it :) 22:54 < tfing> hi rxr 22:55 < tfing> can you make available the minimal-nearly-2.0.0.iso mnemoc uploaded to you ? 22:56 < daja77> btw what costed me the whole day was to figure out that ppp support for isdn was disabled in rocklinux kernel :( 22:57 < rxr> tfing: one minimal is at rc3 22:57 < rxr> tfing: I just had one minimal in my hand - but need to verify it before it push it 22:57 < rxr> might be in some minutes 22:57 < tfing> there is even one at rc4 22:57 < tfing> but i'd like something known to work 22:58 < rxr> tfing: I meant the rc4 - isn't it know to work? 22:59 < tfing> i don't know 22:59 < tfing> mnemoc told me he uploaded a working minimal iso, but it's not publicly available 22:59 < rxr> ok wait a sec 23:01 < rxr> tfing: copying 23:06 < netrunner> oh, a new noteedit :) 23:06 < rxr> https://gsmp.tfh-berlin.de/ftp/rock/stable/2.0.0/minimal/ 23:07 < rxr> will also be on the mirros in some minutes ... 23:07 < rxr> tfing: please report if it work: rene@rocklinux.org ... 23:10 < tfing> ok, i'll try it and tell you 23:15 < rxr> it is now also at nexus.tfh-berlin.de 23:15 < rxr> and the fat iso.rocklinux.de resync is now also running 23:15 < rxr> n8 all 23:15 < netrunner> n8 rxr 23:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9BB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:34 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@pD900577D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 23:40 < netrunner> fake: I'll test your linuxrc changes tomorrow. 23:45 < netrunner> hm, doesn't apply :( --- Log closed Sun Mar 14 00:00:45 2004