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--- Log opened Sat May 08 00:00:17 2004 00:01 < rxr> ehrm - the Linux kernel becomes crazy: 00:01 < rxr> > fpu_init() is needed in the resume path, only if the user want to 00:01 < rxr> > change the cpu between suspend and resume. Otherwise the 00:01 < rxr> > mxcsr_features_mask calculated earlier will still be valid. 00:01 < rxr> Noone should exchange CPUs while we are in S4 suspend; but handling it can not hurt. 00:02 < rxr> hm - that is cool for server updates 00:02 < rxr> suspend - throw out Intel crap - put in Athlon whatever - power-on 00:09 < daja77> hehe 00:10 < rxr> https://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_4074_01.asp 00:12 < daja77> hehe now they bring upo installer stories too 00:15 < rxr> interesting how many UI's Micosoft implements 00:15 < rxr> not that they choose one MVC windowing / widget stuff - no the installer looks difference from the system and so on ... a bit bloated and inconsistent ... 00:17 < netrunner> rxr: should I buy the ibook with more ram or can I add cheaper later? 00:19 < rxr> adding RAM should be easy 00:20 < rxr> it's normal DDR RAM, anyway 00:21 < netrunner> ah ok. 00:22 < rxr> (only depending on the model if 266 or 333 or so ... - SO-DIMs of course) 00:25 < netrunner> hmok. I'll probably buy an 12" ibook tomorrow. If it feels good when I see it :) 00:25 < rxr> those new G4 - or the older G3? 00:26 < rxr> You know that the Airport Extreme and Radeon 9500 (or so) do not yet work under Linux ? 00:26 < daja77> the 12" are with nvidia :( 00:26 < rxr> daja77: no 00:26 < daja77> then the apple page told crap 00:26 < rxr> (where w/ Radeon only hardware 3D is affected) 00:26 < rxr> the 12" Powerbooks 00:26 < rxr> not iBook 00:27 < rxr> all last years iBooks are Radeon 00:27 < daja77> cool 00:27 < rxr> only in some Powerbook's NVidia "crap" got inserted 00:28 < daja77> the whole apple stuff is quite expensive, when you want some features in it 00:28 < rxr> https://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_10.jpg 00:28 < daja77> have i told you that i get paid for macosX programming next week 00:28 < rxr> 1 hours 27 minutes (40%) remaining (40%) 00:29 < rxr> they hand out good stuff to smoke @ Microsoft 00:29 < daja77> LOL 00:29 < fake> hey, kinda makes the job more attractive *g* 00:30 < daja77> hehe 00:30 < netrunner> radeon If I read correctly 00:30 < rxr> netrunner: yes - but too new radeon ... 00:30 < netrunner> and I think it's a g4, at least on the website. hope they have that in the store 00:31 < rxr> if this would be the first Microsoft Windows try - but it the imporvement of an improvement of an .... 00:31 < rxr> netrunner: all G4 iBooks have too new radeon ... 00:31 < rxr> and Airport Extreme ... 00:33 < fake> airport extreme sucks 00:33 < rxr> because no Linux support ? for the chipset ? 00:33 < fake> yes. and no monitor support in OS X 00:33 < netrunner> 1GHz PowerPC G4 ... ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 ... 00:34 < fake> and the banning of Open Source / replacement drivers in .3 00:34 < rxr> .3 ? 00:34 < fake> monitor as in 'rf monitoring mode' 00:34 < fake> the newest panther 00:34 < rxr> what do you mean with "banning of Open Source / replacement drivers" ? 00:35 < rxr> netrunner: I do not think this info is correct, all G4 iBooks have newer Radeon chips 00:35 < fake> there was a replacement driver for mac os X that supported monitoring mode 00:35 < rxr> fake: fully open source ? 00:35 < netrunner> rxr: I just took it from the apple education store 00:35 < fake> rxr: i suppose not ;) 00:35 < rxr> netrunner: I know you quoted it - but it can not be right 00:36 < fake> rxr: no first hand experience, just always hear the whining of a osx user ;) 00:36 < daja77> hehe 00:36 < rxr> netrunner: in a Gravis store at the next crossing here - they also had a poster telling this 00:36 * daja77 got hired by a bunch of macos freaks 00:36 < netrunner> rxr: that's a bit far away ;) 00:36 < daja77> but maybe i port this to linuix 00:36 < rxr> I watned to buy one when it really contains this Radeon - he took a deeper look an noticed the poster is wrong 00:37 < rxr> daja77: what will be your job? 00:37 < netrunner> does anybody here know qt? 00:37 < rxr> partly - but I'm not in the mood to tutor this ... 00:37 < rxr> I want to hack a bit ... 00:37 < netrunner> rxr: so is the newer better or worse? 00:37 < daja77> driver programming + some application programming to present their printed keyboard and stuff 00:38 * netrunner beginning to hesitate again :/ 00:39 < rxr> netrunner: this depends if you need wlan and/or hardware 3d 00:39 < daja77> wlan yes, 3d not necessarily 00:40 < rxr> for me it is the other way round ... 00:40 < rxr> one could also use USB wlan dongles ... 00:40 < rxr> or bluetooth 00:41 < fake> yes, but usb wlan adapters w/prism2 and external antenna connectors are *very* rare 00:41 < fake> i.e. i am not aware of any 00:41 < rxr> there are other Linux supported ones ... 00:41 < fake> what do i need a notebook for when i can't even wardrive with it *g* 00:41 < daja77> i hate this built in hw is there but not supported crap, this is the same on x86 laptops 00:41 < rxr> for my current workload a G4 would be better - and I guess with enought time I could hack the Radeon into a working state ... 00:42 < rxr> this is not Apple causing this - it is some normal broadcom I think chip ... 00:42 < fake> yes 00:42 < rxr> and for the Radeon thing it is the same - just NVidia and Ati suck a lot 00:42 < fake> and broadcom refuses to acknowledge linux as an OS ;) 00:43 < daja77> well anyway who is responsable, this sucks a lot 00:43 < rxr> hm - I only acknowledge stuff like Linux and Darwin as an OS 00:43 < rxr> how could they then ship Windows drivers ... 00:43 < rxr> yes - it sucks not to get specs 00:43 < fake> i have darwin installe don my x86, but it won't boot 00:44 < daja77> you could have tested hurd as well *eg* 00:44 * rxr is still waiting for VIA - they claim they do not have the SPEC for the older VT82C586 anymore - but if they *find* it I get it under NDA ... 00:44 < netrunner> rxr: do I get you right that neither 3d nor wlan work? (I assume you mean running linux, osx should be fine) 00:44 < rxr> netrunner: yeah - sure everything under MacOSX works like a charme ... 00:44 < daja77> rxr: ndas suck too but better than nothing 00:44 < rxr> netrunner: yes - neither 3d nor wlan should work under Linux 00:45 < rxr> I do not care - I sign any NDA as long as they do not limit source releases - normally they do not 00:45 < daja77> those apple newsletters are funny 00:45 < rxr> I sign the paper and have the doc <dot> - problem solved. 00:45 < rxr> I only need the VT82C586 spec due to hardware wiring anyway ... 00:46 < daja77> they do not, strange whats the difference between the src as doc are the real doc 00:46 < daja77> i don't get it 00:47 < daja77> <nitpick> in that case it is not dot but period :) 00:47 < netrunner> hm ... not being able to run linux on it sux :( 00:47 < rxr> daja77: ack 00:47 < rxr> often I also do not get hardware vendors, they sell the hardware, not the spec ... 00:47 < rxr> netrunner: you are able to run Linux on it ... 00:48 < LowLander> Ok guys where should i start when i want to make a distro with ROCK that has something like knoppix but can also instal 00:48 < rxr> just not w/ accelerated 3d (how often do you use it?) and not with the optional intenal w-lan 00:48 < rxr> just plug in a USB one 00:48 < rxr> LowLander: fake is on this thing ... 00:48 < daja77> yeah knoppix needs to be replaced 00:49 < rxr> LowLander: but if you want to start your own - use the bootdisk target and modify it to include more, start X, and patch the kernel to include cloop ... 00:49 < rxr> that is it mostly ... 00:49 < fake> lowlander: must be ready at the end of june 00:49 < LowLander> fake cool 00:49 < fake> LowLander: documentation must be ready in one week :( 00:49 < LowLander> even better 00:49 < daja77> btw that debian ranting in dasr is nice 00:49 < fake> LowLander: https://f4k3.net/~fake/rock-livecd/ 00:51 < LowLander> looks interesting 00:51 < daja77> fake: that cloop stuff is completely missing in your plan, or am I to tired to find it 00:51 < fake> daja77: than plan is outdated 00:51 < daja77> good :) 00:51 < LowLander> fake at a "update plan : 1 hour" to the plan 00:51 < LowLander> :-) 00:51 < fake> daja77: i had to 'correct' it - it was too 'specific' - it's now like '- Project planning : 8h, -implementation: 30 h...' 00:52 * LowLander noticed that he is old compared to most rock developers :-) 00:52 < daja77> rofl 00:52 < daja77> doesn't matter 00:53 < daja77> <- watching futurama 00:53 < LowLander> just noticed there are a lot of ppl from 198* 00:53 * fake is old 00:53 < daja77> nah you just look old :p 00:53 < LowLander> atleast no 199* :-) 00:56 < fake> chaos city is funny 00:58 < rxr> hm - I think I'll finally implement conditional patches for multi tarball packages 00:58 < rxr> NOW 01:17 < LowLander> how stable is the build system ? 01:18 < LowLander> hmm with stable i mean , does it change a lot 01:18 < LowLander> or are there plans for changes 01:18 < daja77> there are plans 01:19 < daja77> but the 2.0 ones should keep this way 01:19 < LowLander> in what direction ? 01:19 < LowLander> and 2.1 ? 01:19 < LowLander> or do you mean 2.x 01:20 < daja77> downlaod dir restructering and stuff 01:20 < daja77> anyway i am too tired now 01:20 < daja77> n8 01:20 < rxr> LowLander: the build system will get improvements - in 2.2 quite a lot 01:21 < LowLander> btw why does the configure tool react so slow ? 01:21 < rxr> but the underlying package description format (ASCI tags) and .conf files will stay compatible 01:21 < rxr> LowLander: because each change does result in reparsing tons of packages lists and reevaluation of conditionas 01:21 < rxr> conditionals even 01:22 < LowLander> when i select somethign like "Target Dist." it takes like 3 seconds to come back 01:22 < rxr> in 2.1-devel this got already speed up a lot 01:22 < LowLander> ah ok 01:22 < rxr> 2.0 or 2.1? 01:22 < LowLander> svn 01:22 < rxr> 2.1 is already much faster - and we will work on accelerating this further 01:22 < LowLander> 2.1-DEV 01:22 < LowLander> hmmm was just wndering 01:22 < rxr> hm - trunk ? @ HEAD? 01:23 < LowLander> not that it makes much a difference compared to the time needed to download and compile :-) 01:23 < LowLander> trunk 01:23 < LowLander> <--- svn newbie 01:23 < rxr> and when you do "svn up" nothing changes? 01:25 < LowLander> hmmm it is thinking real hard now 01:25 < LowLander> oh there it goes 01:25 < LowLander> few A's and a few U's 01:25 < LowLander> a D 01:25 < rxr> s.th. in scripts/ or misc/ ? 01:25 < LowLander> time to get the SVN manual i guess 01:26 < LowLander> in package/ 01:26 < LowLander> still working 01:26 < rxr> you you have U's in scripts/ or misc/ ? 01:26 < rxr> ah - ok 01:26 < LowLander> updated to revision 2877 01:26 < rxr> when you get updates in scripts/ or misc/ changes are high that Config is faster after the update 01:27 < LowLander> nope thats as fast as it is going to be :-) 01:27 < rxr> ok - then it should already be faster then the 2.0 one - more acceleration planed ... 01:28 < LowLander> ok i got some seriouse doku to read :-) 01:29 < rxr> what? the svn handbook ? 01:29 < LowLander> and ROCK development 01:29 < rxr> the Handbook ? 01:29 < LowLander> what ever doku i can find 01:29 < LowLander> ls 01:30 < LowLander> doh 01:30 < rxr> in in source Documentation is not up-to-date and will be removed soon 01:30 < rxr> refer to the all mighty Handbook: https://www.rocklinux.org/handbook.html (I think) 01:30 < LowLander> so what is _the_ doku to read ? 01:30 < LowLander> ah ok 01:31 < rxr> (Documentation is not that bad - just that the Handbook is much mroe worked on) 01:46 -!- MadTux [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux 01:47 < rxr> hi MadTux 01:47 < MadTux> re rxr :) 01:48 -!- nookie [~nookie@M300P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux 01:49 < LowLander> ok sleep time 01:50 < LowLander> cya 01:50 < MadTux> n8 HighLander 01:55 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M197P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:02 < nookie> Hi MadTux 02:02 < MadTux> n00kie! 02:03 < nookie> Hola :) 02:17 * rxr needs faster PowrPC boxs 02:17 < rxr> or clustering all embedded boards lying around ... 02:17 < rxr> "Where has this ISO been build?" 02:18 < rxr> Oh, that is easy: "On a cluster of a IBM RS/6k, a Motorola MCP750 and MCP750HA embedded boars + an iBook added ad-hoc from time to time 02:28 < mnemoc> re 02:38 < rxr> hi mnemoc 02:38 < rxr> hm - tee is empty 02:39 < rxr> hm - seems I shoudl crawl into bed 02:41 < tfing> rxr: just before that just one question 02:41 < tfing> who will be the maintainer for the 2.1 stable branch ? 02:41 < rxr> maybe /me ... 02:41 < mnemoc> hi rxr, tfing 02:41 < tfing> hi mnemoc 02:41 < rxr> tfing: why do you ask? 02:42 < tfing> rxr: that makes a lot of job on your shoulders 02:42 < mnemoc> _lots_ 02:42 < rxr> well - as long as I can generate as much money as I need to pay my flat and food with it - I'm fine with this ... 02:43 < rxr> (and I have clifford as submaster apply monkey ;-) 02:43 < rxr> ah - I forgot to mention in the mail that I'm open for merge suggestions to propagate changes from trunk into 2.0-stable 02:44 < tfing> maybe a stable team of 2-3 people working on the 2 stable branches would be better 02:44 < tfing> deciding what to backport 02:46 < rxr> I would propose this the other way round 02:47 < rxr> more comitees should be allowed in trunk 02:47 < rxr> but for the stable tree - where only well selected things shoudl be just backpoarted (svn merge) one carekeeper should have the overview 02:48 < rxr> but a handful people using the tree in production and proposing "merges" would indeed be very helpful and is what I meant above 02:48 < mnemoc> rxr: apropos download re-organization, i have been thinking and we don't need to fake $archdir, a list of filenames on [D]s is enough and the changes are not too deep 02:50 < rxr> .oO (https://gigaom.com/archives/2004/05/can_comcast_snoop_into_you_home_networks_using_linksys_gateway.html) 02:51 < rxr> mn what do you mean exactly? 02:51 < rxr> we *want* to fake a canonical $archdir using symlinks as explicit feature to: 02:52 < rxr> - prevent builds on our development boxes to build cleanly when in fact the .desc file contains a version mismatch and the package only builds because old tars are lying around 02:53 < mnemoc> (you don't need a canonical $archdir to do the firtst point) 02:53 < rxr> - packages not using files they did not marked to download - and so should not be allowed to use 02:53 < rxr> mnemoc: huh? why? 02:53 < rxr> mnemoc: when there is only one fat $archdir the package can grab any file lying around in it - there is no way to prevent this 02:54 < rxr> (of course using a preload library or kernel module could prevent this) 02:55 < mnemoc> imagine a list (var) of filenames (with s,gz,bz2,g pre-applied 02:55 < mnemoc> does filenames are extractred form .desc's [D]s 02:56 < mnemoc> a function with a pattern as argument can easily return the proper path to that file 02:57 < mnemoc> or even a list of files to loop over it if you want 02:58 < rxr> you mean you need to request any file inside the .conf? 02:58 < rxr> give_me_my_file blabla 02:58 < rxr> ? 02:58 < mnemoc> tar $taropt `gimme_the_file 'linux-.*.tar.bz2` 02:59 < rxr> we want to keep .desc compatible 02:59 < mnemoc> for f in `imme_the_files 'patch-.*'`; do something, done 03:00 < mnemoc> that pattern is used against a list of files taken from .desc file 03:00 < rxr> this is far too complicated to use compared to just using the file 03:00 < rxr> and what is the problem in a wuick look that links all $desc_D listed files into ROCK/archdir or so ? 03:00 < mnemoc> most times you ask for a file you _do_ grep or sed against a pattern 03:00 < rxr> s/wuick/quick/ 03:01 < rxr> (yes the w is near the q ;-) 03:01 < mnemoc> :p 03:01 < rxr> no - only in corner cases 03:02 < rxr> more common is cd themedir (or similar) 03:02 < rxr> tar $taropt $archdir/some-ugly-theme-$ver.ext 03:02 < rxr> or 03:02 < rxr> tar $taropt $archdir/some-extension-or-data-file-$ver(if any).ext 03:03 < rxr> I do not think we should make it more complicated - and more important - we should keep this compatible toe 2.0 when possible - so .conf files can easier be merged (copied) 03:04 < mnemoc> that's is a good point, 03:04 * rxr wants this firefox (or what this browsers name extracted in the mozilla dir was) 03:04 < rxr> (that is compiling for ages) 03:05 < rxr> (well - ok - I had to fix a compile error in the middle - so it was idling - but why does a damn tiny browser needs to compile so long ?!?! 03:05 < rxr> ) 03:05 < rxr> (and why does the tarball contains all - including the editor and mail client ... ?!?!? 03:05 < rxr> ) 03:05 < mnemoc> can you compare it with mozilla (buildtime?) 03:05 < rxr> hm - I build it manually - so now :-( 03:06 < rxr> maybe I package it later (when it proves useful) 03:06 < rxr> and compare the .cache then ... 03:07 < rxr> so - 2.6.5 (with some .config hacking to find a stable combination) does now seem to run stable on PowerPC/Apple ... 03:11 -!- cchamilt [~chatzilla@cm138.sigma49.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11 < mnemoc> going back to download thing... 2.0 compatibility is a good point, but create an $archdir in every build just to cleanly do n (must be around 2) tar $taropt $archdir/foo-$ver.tar.bz2 is not as good as removing $archdir, version capturing, and extension conversion need but dirtily used by a few packages. 03:12 < rxr> well - this are 2 symlinks .... 03:13 < rxr> but I agree that a grep file from download list helper could cleanup the .conf files even further 03:15 < rxr> why the hack is this motilla browser building s.th. in mozilla/mailnews 03:15 < rxr> !?!?!? 03:15 < rxr> I disabled this in the config .... 03:15 < rxr> strange browser cleanup strategy ... 03:19 < mnemoc> thunderbird is the best choice for windows, but i not so sure it is for linux ;) ... 03:19 < rxr> additinoally strange is that config giles still use PHOENIX as variable names 03:19 < mnemoc> firefox... firefox... it's faster than mozilla as browser 03:19 < mnemoc> well.. keep to download thing in mind... cleaner .conf files can be a better presentation card than a few milliseconds in build time. 03:20 < rxr> but I would rather do both - being 2.0 compatible where possible - and introducing a helper function to pattern match files in D tags 03:24 < mnemoc> oh... ack =) 03:31 < rxr> all those Motilla build instructions are a strange joke 03:33 < mnemoc> motilla :) 03:35 < rxr> yes damn crap 03:36 < rxr> and I only tried it because I thought (...) it might be the aster way to get a full-featured browser on my gcc-3.4 iBook until kdelibs and kdebase finish ... 03:36 < rxr> (when s.th. goes onto my nerves I seem to have the tendeny to fill in t's) 03:37 < rxr> hopefully now all is configured to only bulld this browser ... 03:40 < mnemoc> make the force bree with you 03:45 < rxr> ah Ic on your side the r ie near the e, too ;-) 03:47 < rxr> mnemoc: btw, maybe 2004050801470118856 if in your interesst 04:01 < mnemoc> re 04:02 < mnemoc> sort -k? 04:03 < mnemoc> the most important typo in spanish is bv, the are together and sound d exactly the same 04:08 < mnemoc> .oO( i would like to read the POSIX standard some day )o 04:14 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tfing, netrunner, MadTux, Lorini_, Aard, togg 04:14 -!- Netsplit over, joins: MadTux, tfing, Lorini_, Aard, netrunner, togg 04:16 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tfing, netrunner, MadTux, Lorini_, Aard, togg 04:16 -!- Netsplit over, joins: MadTux, tfing, Lorini_, Aard, netrunner, togg 04:27 -!- blindy_ [~blindcode@pD958F4C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 04:27 -!- blindy [~blindcode@p548039CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:27 -!- blindy_ is now known as blindy 05:34 < fake> fake's third commandment: "it's hard to connect to a closed port." 07:36 < MadTux> certainly it is.. 09:18 -!- MadTux [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:43 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:49 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M282P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux 09:55 -!- nookie [~nookie@M300P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06 < BoS> moin 10:15 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has joined #rocklinux 10:15 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has joined #rocklinux 10:36 < daja77> moin 10:37 < netrunner> moin, 2 10:37 * netrunner baking raffaelo tart 10:39 < daja77> :) 10:49 < BoS> mhhh ... 10:55 -!- FouNDeR [~Fou@dsl81-214-33543.adsl.ttnet.net.tr] has joined #rocklinux 10:56 -!- netrunner [~andreas@pD9E8D84D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:56 -!- netrunner [~andreas@pD9E8CD50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux 10:57 < blindy> moi 10:57 < blindy> n 10:58 < BoS> re 11:02 -!- FouNDeR [~Fou@dsl81-214-33543.adsl.ttnet.net.tr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:32 -!- lowy [erwin@pD9EBEFFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 11:41 -!- LowLander [erwin@pD9EBF0BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:43 -!- tfing_ [~tfing@APoitiers-103-1-4-34.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #rocklinux 12:05 -!- tfing [~tfing@APoitiers-103-1-1-85.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:05 -!- tfing_ is now known as tfing 12:41 < rxr> rehi 12:45 < rxr> hm- firefox is not shicking cool 12:49 < rxr> valentin: in firefox the https://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/ favicon appears ... 13:01 < rxr> hm - sad this nice pinstripe theme for firefox is MacOSX only :-( 13:05 < rxr> hm when I click on install new theme firefox just closes ... 13:09 < valentin> rxr:in konqueror, too. 13:10 < lowy> mittag 13:10 -!- lowy is now known as LowLander 13:12 < rxr> valentin: what do you try with konqueror? 13:13 < rxr> valentin: 2.6.5 is now running stable here - has been preemtion support 13:13 < valentin> rxr:favicon 13:16 < rxr> oehm - valentin have you an idea what this person wants to tell me: 13:16 < rxr> :-) One small thing - you use "dUmMy" extensively, but never actually 13:16 < rxr> declare it. Needless to say, the compiler dislikes this! 13:16 < rxr> What type should this be? Or should I be commenting these references, 13:16 < rxr> like most of the earlier examples? 13:17 < valentin> c++ / templates / default type - or what context ? 13:18 < rxr> no - SANE/Avision 13:18 < rxr> and $ grep -i dummy avision.{h,c} 13:18 < rxr> does not yield anything 13:18 < valentin> who was telling you sane did so ? 13:19 < rxr> this is from an email in my inbox 13:19 < rxr> my brain is unable to parse it ... 13:20 < rxr> so I asked you ... 13:21 < valentin> this guy does not give you a file:line or sth ? 13:21 < rxr> no 13:21 < rxr> this this text I'm unable to understand ... 13:21 < valentin> so just tell him to do so 13:21 < rxr> I already did - just wanted to know if I overlooked s.th. important ... 13:22 < valentin> rxr:can you forward the mail ? 13:22 < rxr> I already send the reply 13:22 < rxr> sent even 13:24 < rxr> good that: 13:24 < rxr> == 10:34:01 =[5]=> Building kde/kdebase [3.2.2 2.1.0-DEV]. 13:24 < rxr> so I do not need to use firefox much longer 13:24 < valentin> :) 13:32 < LowLander> what is the diffrence between a cross-build and that semi/fake cross build in the extended options menu 13:38 < rxr> the prseudo cross build is just using a cross compiler for native builds to decouple the host from the build system (needed for difference glibc/gcc build) 13:38 < rxr> (but we use it just ever to keep the code-path tested and avoid gcc/glibc trouble) 13:38 < rxr> a cross build is a real cross build where host and build architecture differ 13:40 < LowLander> but a cross build x86->x86 should also work , right ? 13:40 < LowLander> so why the pseudo cross build ? 13:41 < fake> lowlander: in a real cross build, the build env will not try to run built executables 13:41 < LowLander> ah 13:42 < rxr> LowLander: and for a real cross build we can not yet build all packages - it is limited to the base ones ... 13:42 < LowLander> so powerpc must be build on powerpc and x86 or x86 , etc. 13:42 < LowLander> or=on 13:43 < rxr> no - you can build a ROCK base system for powerpc on x86 13:43 < rxr> but not more 13:43 < rxr> historically gcc was too limited - with recent gcc's this should be possible - and it is on the todo for a later rock version - maybe 2.2 - to build all in cross builds 13:43 < fake> if you do a 'real' cross build, fewer packages can be built. example: kde's 'moc' is built and then used in the further build process. in a cross build that wouldn't work 13:47 < LowLander> damn the building yer own target in the manual is a "@@FIXME" ;-) 13:48 < rxr> yes - but intended ro be written in the next days 13:49 < LowLander> but over all looks like a nice manual 13:49 < rxr> just look at the desktop or bootdisk target for inspiration 13:50 < LowLander> will read it in more detail later 13:50 < rxr> LowLander: thanks ;-) 13:51 < rxr> wow - firefox is one of the first apps I saw getting scrolling in selections right 13:51 < LowLander> scrolling in sellections ? 13:52 < rxr> or - better scrolling while selecting 13:53 < LowLander> and what is wrong and what is right ? 13:54 < rxr> right is when you go out of the canvas (text, graphic area) to let the canvas scroll to advance the selection and the canvas scroll automatically 13:54 -!- Lorini_ is now known as Lorini 13:55 < rxr> wrong (IMO) is when it does not scroll when you do not move the mouse - but only scrolls each time you move the mouse by a pixel 13:55 < rxr> this also has the effeact that moving the mouse make the canvas scroll faster 13:55 < rxr> the wrong version is easier to implement - and many apps do this 13:56 < LowLander> ah yeah 13:56 < LowLander> i think the closer you get to the border the faster it should scroll 13:57 < rxr> yes - that is an indepdant thing - most apps do this 13:57 < rxr> but most apps do not auto-scroll - you must move the mouse outside the canvas area to make it scroll 13:57 < LowLander> thats not good 13:57 < LowLander> but easy 13:58 < LowLander> on_mouse_move() { do_scrol(); } 13:58 < rxr> for auto scrolling one needs a state and additional timeer 13:58 < LowLander> but staemachines are evil ;-) 13:58 < rxr> ho - recent konquerors also do this right ;-) 13:58 * LowLander is not a KDE fan 13:59 * rxr is ;-) 13:59 < LowLander> actually i am just not a Qt fan 13:59 < LowLander> which kind of rubs of on KDE 14:01 < LowLander> ./scripts/Build-Pkg: line 213: chroot: command not found 14:01 < rxr> I also do not like Qt that much - but the end result, KDE, is great 14:01 < LowLander> add /usr/sbin/ to the build scripts 14:01 < rxr> oh 14:02 < LowLander> when i just su i don'T have the /sbin and /usr/sbin/ in my PATH 14:02 < LowLander> why does chroot actually need root-rights ? 14:03 < rxr> because you create an own environment with it's own permission combinations and so on 14:04 < LowLander> but you reduce "rights" with chroot 14:04 < rxr> imageing a simple LowLander = UID=0 and so on 14:04 < rxr> but you can easily layout files to extend right 14:04 < rxr> but you can easily layout files to extend rights 14:04 < LowLander> ah yeah 14:05 < LowLander> you could create a new system-etc inside the filesystem and use those rights to access files 14:05 < LowLander> but i still don'T feel to good about running something large like ROCK-build as root 14:06 < LowLander> wouldn't it be possible to run it as non-root and have a chroot-script that is suid or that asks the root password 14:06 < LowLander> or are there more things than chroot needed 14:57 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@pD9E8CAB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux 15:14 -!- netrunner [~andreas@pD9E8CD50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@dialin-145-254-136-155.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux 15:19 < nzg> moin 15:23 < nzg> moin 15:45 < mnemoc> moin 15:45 < daja77> moin mnemoc 15:46 < mnemoc> daja77! the faster greeting-er of the net 15:56 < mnemoc> .oO( automatized greeting? )o 15:56 < daja77> no 15:56 < netrunne1> tart finished. 15:56 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner 15:57 < mnemoc> hi netrunner 16:00 < netrunner> muahaha https://fun.drno.de/pics/animals/galileo-dog_found.jpg 16:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 16:01 < mnemoc> tasted like chicken??!! 16:07 < fake> *rofl* 16:10 < daja77> hehe 16:15 < netrunner> how do I get a pointer to the object from an iterator? 16:17 < LowLander> *i 16:17 < LowLander> if yer talking C++ :-) 16:18 < LowLander> or (*i).first of (*i).second if you have a map<> 16:19 < netrunner> jup. but this is then Object*& ... I need something like Object* If I understand it right. 16:20 < LowLander> what did you put in the container ? 16:20 < LowLander> and Object*& is just an reference to a pointer, which is just as good as a pointer 16:23 < LowLander> but anyway i need to get some shopping done, bbl 16:24 < netrunner> LowLander: hm, that's a good point. 16:28 < netrunner> hm, there are pointers in the iterator. 16:28 < netrunner> can I do *(*(i)) ? 16:29 * netrunner turns red while showing that he has no idea of c++ ;) 16:29 < mnemoc> **i looks nicer 16:30 < netrunner> conversion from Object* to non-scalar type requested :/ 16:30 < netrunner> s/type/type `Object'/ 16:34 < mnemoc> does imap4 has something like 'passive mode'? 16:36 < mnemoc> there is a server from which i only get the mail list, but not content... from any computer/MUA in this whole network, but from home it works perfectly 16:36 < netrunner> hm, how do I make a reference from a pointer? I mean If I have *Object, how do I get &Object from that? 16:36 < netrunner> cast somehow? 16:39 < mnemoc> a reference to a pointer? 16:39 < mnemoc> you can reference a var which can contain a pointer 16:40 * netrunner is completely puzzled and considers going back to java or perl :) 16:41 < mnemoc> a pointer is an address, you can't get the address of an address 16:42 < mnemoc> *i the var 'i' contains a pointer to an object 16:43 < mnemoc> **i the var 'i' contains a pointer to another memory block which contains a pointer to an object 16:44 < netrunner> &i is a reference to the data, also containing it's type? 16:44 < netrunner> or is &i just the adress of the data in i? 16:46 < mnemoc> &i is the addres of the var 'i' 16:46 < mnemoc> the object pointed doesn't have type 16:54 < netrunner> thx ... I think I have to think a bit over what I wrote ... 16:54 < dsoul> :) 17:06 < mnemoc> netrunner: you need to know the 'type' of a pointer? there are tricks to do that if you want. 17:49 -!- nookie [~nookie@M333P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux 18:06 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M282P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28 * fake forked 'livecd' target 18:29 < fake> blindy: ping 18:31 < LowLander> fake where can i get it ? :-) 18:43 < fake> LowLander: cd target && cp -a bootdisk livecd 18:43 < fake> ;)) 18:43 < mnemoc> LOL 18:43 < fake> with some adotions, of course. 18:43 < dsoul> :> 18:44 < fake> floppy generation removed, 2nd_stage_small removed, isolinux help0.txt with 'LIVE CD' and all references to 'install' removed. 18:44 < fake> *GG* 18:50 < fake> wow, by now about 600 patches are in submaster 18:52 < mnemoc> fake: look at right-bottom corner 18:54 < fake> mnemoc: i did that, for all past months, and used a fuzzy^H^H^H^H^Hlazy sum algorythm 18:54 < mnemoc> :p 18:54 < fake> ;) 18:58 < LowLander> fake :-P 18:58 < LowLander> <--- phone 19:01 < fake> <--- fake 19:10 -!- Lorini [~Andrea@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has left #rocklinux ["Irre explodieren nicht, wenn das Sonnenlicht sie trifft, ganz egal, wie irre sie sind."] 19:21 < fake> that's 'from dusk til dawn', right? 19:25 < mnemoc> music= 19:25 < mnemoc> ? 19:30 < fake> no, the logoff text of Lorini 19:31 -!- darix- [darix@monsters.rsn.uni-rostock.de] has joined #rocklinux 19:31 < mnemoc> :\ 19:32 -!- darix- [darix@monsters.rsn.uni-rostock.de] has left #rocklinux ["All rights reversed"] 19:45 < rxr> rehi 19:46 < mnemoc> hi rxr 19:46 < valentin> re, hi 19:46 < mnemoc> hi valentin 19:51 < mnemoc> there is any 'classic' ftp uid/gid ? 19:53 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@p54804250.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 19:55 -!- MadTux [~mike@master.hack-solutions.com] has joined #rocklinux 19:55 < MadTux> moin. 19:58 < mnemoc> moin MadTux 20:16 < daja77> re 20:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32 -!- link_ [~link_@adsl.xan.ch] has joined #rocklinux 21:07 < MadTux> link_: !! 21:15 -!- link_ [~link_@adsl.xan.ch] has quit [Operation timed out] 21:25 -!- justtony [~anthony_w@64.239.27.24.cfl.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux 21:25 < justtony> is there a good vulnerability scanner other than nessus? 21:37 -!- MadTux [~mike@master.hack-solutions.com] has quit ["leaving"] 21:41 -!- justtony [~anthony_w@64.239.27.24.cfl.rr.com] has left #rocklinux [] 22:09 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M379P025.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux 22:27 -!- nookie [~nookie@M333P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:31 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD9E8DEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux 22:46 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@p54804250.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD9E8DEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Why?"] 22:57 < rxr> anyone around? 22:58 < daja77> me raises slowly his hand 22:58 < LowLander> nope 22:58 < rxr> ;-) 22:58 < rxr> hi 22:58 < daja77> hi rxr 22:58 < rxr> hi daja77 23:04 < rxr> after a day with thunderbird I still fins konqueor superb - and I'm really happy about: 23:04 < rxr> == 05/06/04 13:22:51 =[5]=> Finished building package kdebase. 23:05 < daja77> there are currently 5 broken kde packages 23:05 < rxr> overall after all the fixes my gcc-3.4 system here get's in shapre 23:06 < rxr> especially since I first dropped dillo w/ firefox and the firefox w/ konqueror ,) 23:06 < daja77> :) 23:06 < rxr> I have to admint dillo was the fastest - but featureless ... 23:06 < rxr> (does not even support CSS) 23:06 < rxr> but most sites render instantly 23:06 < valentin> re 23:06 < rxr> (when they render 23:06 < rxr> ) 23:06 < rxr> hi valentin 23:07 < rxr> valentin: I just packaged thunderbird and firefox 23:07 < rxr> I'll quickly testbuild them and commit into submaster 23:07 < valentin> rxr:thanks 23:08 < LowLander> arpd.c:729: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this funct .. 23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:821: request for member `sync' in something not a .. 23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:840: request for member `close' in something not .. 23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:844: request for member `close' in something not .. 23:08 < LowLander> !> make[1]: *** [arpd.o] Error 1 23:08 < LowLander> !> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ROCK/src.iproute2.108402882 .. 23:09 < LowLander> !> make: *** [all] Error 2 23:09 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.err 23:09 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 17:07:33 =[5]=> Aborted building package iproute2. 23:09 < rxr> LowLander: what target do you build? 23:10 < LowLander> 2.1.0-DEV-x86-bootdisk-expert 23:10 < rxr> hm - interesting - ah! 23:11 < LowLander> "ah" as in "ah i know whats wrong" ? 23:11 < rxr> I can imagine 23:11 < rxr> mom 23:15 * daja77 off for some street music 23:15 < rxr> LowLander: ok 23:15 < LowLander> ok? 23:15 < rxr> take your fav. editor 23:15 < rxr> package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf 23:16 < LowLander> done 23:16 < rxr> got to the end of the file wich lists: 23:16 < rxr> if [ $stagelevel -le 1 ]; then 23:16 < rxr> var_append patchfiles ' ' $confdir/bdb_unavailable.diff 23:16 < rxr> fi 23:16 < rxr> remove the lines: if .... 23:16 < rxr> fi ... 23:16 < rxr> so the file is always included to the patchfiles 23:17 < rxr> and save the file 23:17 < rxr> and save the file 23:17 < rxr> (sorry - was wrong window for up-arrow) 23:17 < LowLander> hehe 23:17 < rxr> when saved remove the log file 23:17 < LowLander> ok let me try 23:18 < rxr> build/<your-install-target>/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.err 23:18 < rxr> if your build is still running - it will be automatically rebuild 23:18 < rxr> if you stopped the build continue it ... 23:18 < rxr> if this does work I commit the proper fix 23:24 < LowLander> == 23:24:06 =[5]=> Building base/iproute2 [2.4.7-ahu-20021020 2.1.0-DEV]. 23:24 < LowLander> -> Reading package configuration from package directory. 23:24 < LowLander> -> Preparing build in src.iproute2.1084051443.12048.853072914 23:24 < LowLander> -> Building. Writing output to $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out 23:24 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.log 23:24 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 23:24:31 =[5]=> Finished building package iproute2. 23:25 < rxr> ok 23:25 < LowLander> Creating small 2nd stage filesystem: 23:25 < LowLander> -> Copy the most important programs ... 23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: eject 23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: mkreiserfs 23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: disktype 23:26 < rxr> have those packages build correctly ? 23:27 < LowLander> i have no error log files anymore 23:27 < rxr> hm 23:27 < LowLander> maybe they are not build at all 23:27 < LowLander> maybe a broke something 23:28 < rxr> do you have logs in build/<id>/var/adm/logs/5-$pkg.log ? 23:28 < rxr> for reiserfsprogs, eject and disktype? 23:29 < LowLander> hmmm nope 23:29 < rxr> LowLander: you have no such logs? 23:30 < LowLander> nope 23:30 < rxr> but you are in the right dir? there are other logs? 23:30 < LowLander> yes loads of them , including the iproute one 23:30 < LowLander> which hat a .err before 23:31 -!- nookie_ is now known as nookie 23:31 < rxr> interesting 23:31 < rxr> what have you configured? the normal bootdisk target? 23:32 < rxr> or did you add package selection templates or custom package selections ? 23:32 < LowLander> got bootdisk 23:32 < LowLander> include kiss 23:32 < LowLander> ANSI colors 23:32 < LowLander> show expert 23:32 < LowLander> create tar.bz2 23:33 < LowLander> minimal+xfree) 23:33 < LowLander> pseudo cross 23:33 < LowLander> speed 23:33 < LowLander> disable rtti/excp 23:33 < LowLander> disable national 23:33 < LowLander> create cache 23:34 < LowLander> run paranoia 23:34 < LowLander> thats it 23:34 < rxr> youwhy did you selected minimal+xfree in the bootdisk target? 23:34 < LowLander> yep 23:34 < rxr> why? 23:34 < LowLander> why not ? 23:34 < LowLander> just messing around 23:34 < rxr> bootdisk is already a well know really minimal setup ... 23:35 < LowLander> when the option is there i try it 23:35 < rxr> minimal+xfree removes some packages (e.g. eject, disktype) useful in the installer 23:35 < rxr> yeah - sure this is ok 23:35 < rxr> this even builds 23:35 < LowLander> so that option should not be posible :-) 23:35 < rxr> but the consequence is that you get a warning during the bootdisk environment creation 23:35 < rxr> no - it is perfectly fine - you just get what you asked for ... 23:35 < rxr> ;-) 23:36 < LowLander> well not really , i dodn't ask for errors ;-P 23:36 < rxr> you know get a bootable ISO with this changed feature set: 23:36 < rxr> - no eject (does not hurt you - when your CD drive has hardware eject)= 23:36 < rxr> - you are not able to create reiserfs 23:37 < rxr> - your installer will have limited functionallity due to missing disk detection disktype ... 23:37 < rxr> the rest is fine 23:37 < rxr> the config would be way slower if it should check those constraits, too ;-) 23:37 < rxr> it already checks _a lot_ 23:38 < LowLander> why is it so slow, is that just a bash problem ? 23:38 < LowLander> wait the config is C 23:38 < rxr> only parly - it already reparses many package selections rules ... 23:39 < rxr> no, the config is bash - and in 2.1 with an accelerator bash plugin written in C 23:39 < rxr> you can just use your build the way it is 23:39 < rxr> you could just add reiserfsprogs and disktype to the custom selection - this will make your buidl a bit more functional 23:40 < rxr> or leave it as it is - when this fits your needs 23:40 < rxr> LowLander: can you do me a favour? 23:40 < LowLander> sure 23:40 < rxr> svn revert package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf 23:40 < rxr> (this will revert your local changes) 23:40 < rxr> svn up package/base/iproute2 23:40 < rxr> (this will get the proper fix I just committed) 23:41 < rxr> rm build/<id>/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.log 23:41 < rxr> restart the build (to test my change ;-) 23:41 < LowLander> Updated to revision 2878. 23:41 < rxr> yep you should have get 23:41 < rxr> U package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf 23:45 < LowLander> == 23:44:43 =[5]=> Building base/iproute2 [2.4.7-ahu-20021020 2.1.0-DEV]. 23:45 < LowLander> -> Reading package configuration from package directory. 23:45 < LowLander> -> Preparing build in src.iproute2.1084052672.23065.2293573654 23:45 < LowLander> -> Building. Writing output to $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out 23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:729: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this funct .. 23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:821: request for member `sync' in something not a .. 23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:840: request for member `close' in something not .. 23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:844: request for member `close' in something not .. 23:45 < LowLander> !> make[1]: *** [arpd.o] Error 1 23:45 < LowLander> !> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ROCK/src.iproute2.108405267 .. 23:45 < LowLander> !> make: *** [all] Error 2 23:45 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.err 23:45 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 23:45:13 =[5]=> Aborted building package iproute2. 23:45 < LowLander> !> Creation of binary package isn't possible, 23:45 < LowLander> !> because the package was not successfully 23:45 < LowLander> !> built in (at least) the current stage. 23:48 < rxr> ok sec 23:49 < dsoul> :> 23:53 < rxr> ok - retry ;-) --- Log closed Sun May 09 00:00:34 2004