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[02:14] kasc_ (i=kasc@dsl-082-083-051-136.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [02:25] kasc (i=kasc@dsl-082-083-131-173.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:25] Nick change: kasc_ -> kasc [05:47] menomc (n=amery@200.75.27.51) joined #rocklinux. [05:57] mnemoc (n=amery@200.75.27.38) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [07:00] Nick change: menomc -> mnemoc [07:34] crass (n=root@rrcs-24-73-245-194.sw.biz.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [08:25] <blindcoder> moin [08:26] fake_ (n=fake@rapidnetworks.de) got netsplit. [08:29] fake_ (n=fake@rapidnetworks.de) returned to #rocklinux. [10:01] Topic changed on #rocklinux by th!n=th@montana.hbsn.de: ROCK-2.0.4 with udev support? [10:15] blindcod1r (n=blindcod@dsl-082-082-096-175.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [10:15] blindcoder (n=blindcod@dsl-082-082-103-167.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Nick collision from services. [10:15] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [13:30] <th> wow mine consumes a lot of RAM [13:32] mnemoc (n=amery@200.75.27.51) got netsplit. [13:32] [anders] (n=snafu@karlsson.force9.co.uk) got netsplit. [13:32] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) got netsplit. [13:32] ija (i=[2ygamVP@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de) got netsplit. [13:32] cutio (n=cutio@93.mos.at) got netsplit. [13:32] h-k (n=h-k@athen214.server4free.de) got netsplit. [13:32] daja77 (i=[UM8Ol3s@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de) got netsplit. [13:32] clifford (n=clifford@213-229-1-138.sdsl-line.inode.at) got netsplit. [13:32] owl (n=owl@karnaya.de) got netsplit. [13:32] _Ragnar_ (i=loki@216.250.77.230) got netsplit. [13:32] esden (i=esdentem@pallas.crash-override.net) got netsplit. [13:32] nzg (n=tschmidt@xchangecenter.de) got netsplit. [13:32] Freak (n=nnfreak@freak.linuxforce.de) got netsplit. [13:34] rockbot joined #rocklinux. [13:34] clifford (n=clifford@213.229.1.138) joined #rocklinux. [13:37] Nick change: ija_ -> ija [13:37] nzg (n=tschmidt@xchangecenter.de) joined #rocklinux. [13:37] gaupe (i=[U2FsdGV@slogen.sunnmore.net) joined #rocklinux. [13:38] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) joined #rocklinux. [13:38] <blindcoder> th: that's because it's based on tar which reads the whole tarball into RAM [13:39] <th> sure? [13:39] <th> i doubt that [13:40] <th> i can pipe into "tar xz" and it wont load it in RAM before starting to extract [13:40] <th> i thought it would be the gem->tar step that eats the mem [13:42] esden (i=esdentem@pallas.crash-override.net) joined #rocklinux. [13:42] _hannes (n=hannes@port-212-202-55-34.dynamic.qsc.de) joined #rocklinux. [13:45] <blindcoder> hmm [13:45] <blindcoder> I'm quite sure I had that problem at least with older tar versions [13:46] <th> hmm [13:46] <th> k [13:47] SMP_ (n=stefanp@vanessa.wronline.net) joined #rocklinux. [13:47] <th> hey SMP_ [13:47] <th> i doubt he's real [13:49] <blindcoder> he's never :) [13:57] _hannes (n=hannes@port-212-202-55-34.dynamic.qsc.de) left irc: Client Quit [14:16] <owl> moin [14:18] netrunner (n=andreas@p5498034E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #rocklinux. [14:20] Nick change: ija -> keinbockmehr [15:03] netrunner (n=andreas@p5498034E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [15:06] Nick change: keinbockmehr -> ija [15:11] [anders] (n=snafu@karlsson.force9.co.uk) got netsplit. [15:11] blindcoder (n=blindcod@dsl-082-082-096-175.arcor-ip.net) got netsplit. [15:11] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) got netsplit. [15:11] owl (n=owl@karnaya.de) got netsplit. [15:11] clifford (n=clifford@213.229.1.138) got netsplit. [15:11] mnemoc (n=amery@200.75.27.51) got netsplit. [15:11] ija (i=[uGq3dJz@134.109.132.94) got netsplit. [15:11] h-k_ (n=h-k@athen214.server4free.de) got netsplit. [15:12] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) returned to #rocklinux. 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[15:22] nzg (n=tschmidt@xchangecenter.de) joined #rocklinux. [15:24] <daja77> >_< [15:24] <blindcoder> ^_^ [15:24] esden (i=esdentem@pallas.crash-override.net) joined #rocklinux. [15:24] <blindcoder> Splitnode is a fun network to be on [15:25] <blindcoder> if you don't like people, jsut wait a few minutes, they'll vanish by sheer magic! [15:25] SMP_ (n=stefanp@vanessa.wronline.net) joined #rocklinux. [15:26] Nick change: h-k_ -> H-K [15:27] <daja77> ^^ [15:27] netrunner (n=andreas@p54980CE8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #rocklinux. [15:27] cutio (n=cutio@93.mos.at) joined #rocklinux. [16:10] _hannes_ (n=hannes@port-212-202-55-34.dynamic.qsc.de) joined #rocklinux. [16:18] <owl> hi _hannes_ [16:38] <netrunner> *kreisch* Aug 29 16:23:01 waterworld kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 22:41 (hdh), sector 46068000 [16:38] <daja77> internal drive? [16:39] <cutio> ibm djna? ;) [16:40] <netrunner> yes. one of my 120 GB drives in striped lvm. if it breaks, ... well, you know.. 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[16:47] <daja77> it is sunny today [16:47] <daja77> and the flood was not in my area this time ;) [16:47] <mnemoc> :) [16:48] <mnemoc> we had 160mm yesterday, but today is sunny also [16:48] <daja77> i was at dresden last friday https://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~jahre/dresden-2005-08-26/ [16:48] <daja77> it was sunny too [16:49] <mnemoc> lucky daja77 [16:49] <daja77> :) [16:49] <daja77> ah that reminds me [16:49] <daja77> blindcoder: ping [16:51] <cutio> daja77: i life in dresden :) [16:51] <daja77> so you know all the pics already ^^ [16:51] <daja77> cutio: will you be at the linux info tag dresden? [16:51] <cutio> probably [16:52] <daja77> nice because I thought of registering a rocklinux booth there [16:52] <cutio> that would be kinda cool! :> [16:52] <daja77> but I don't want to do this alone like last year [16:52] <cutio> did you visit dresden neustadt too? [16:53] <daja77> not this time ^^ [16:53] <daja77> I concentrated a bit on the nice parts on friday ^^ [16:54] <daja77> neustadt is concipated to drive any sane car driver mad [16:54] <cutio> yeah, well the neustadt is a little bit unique ;) you even smell the difference.. at least i do [16:54] <daja77> hehe [16:54] <cutio> albertplatz! [16:54] <daja77> yeah [16:54] <cutio> i enjoy driving or fighting on the b172 =) [16:55] <daja77> ^^ [17:06] clifford (n=clifford@213.229.1.138) got netsplit. [17:06] H-K (n=h-k@athen214.server4free.de) got netsplit. [17:06] ija (i=[uGq3dJz@134.109.132.94) got netsplit. [17:06] mnemoc (n=amery@200.75.27.51) got netsplit. [17:06] [anders] (n=snafu@karlsson.force9.co.uk) got netsplit. [17:06] SMP_ (n=stefanp@vanessa.wronline.net) got netsplit. [17:06] blindcoder (n=blindcod@dsl-082-082-096-175.arcor-ip.net) got netsplit. [17:06] esden (i=esdentem@pallas.crash-override.net) got netsplit. [17:06] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) got netsplit. 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[17:09] <daja77> hm possibly [17:24] <th> in trunk with udev... [17:24] <th> does it work without initrd? [17:25] <daja77> I must have missed the first question [17:27] <th> it was only one [17:27] <th> my question is: is it possible to boot a trunk without initrd [17:27] <th> with udev [17:30] <daja77> can't tell [17:34] <esden> huhu [17:34] <daja77> hi esden [17:35] <esden> hi daja77 [17:35] <esden> what is up? [17:39] owl (n=owl@karnaya.de) left irc: "brb" [17:42] <th> who starts /etc/initscript? [17:45] <esden> /sbin/init [17:45] <th> ahh it's init itself [17:45] <esden> ? [17:45] <esden> yes then I had it correctly in my head ;) [17:46] <mnemoc> inittab? :) [17:46] <th> nope [17:46] <th> inittab only gets the boring part of /etc/rc.d [17:46] <mnemoc> sure? [17:47] <mnemoc> i use runit, but iirc inittab has a line for initscript [17:47] <th> strings /sbin/init|grep initscript [17:47] <th> /etc/initscript [17:47] <th> /etc/initscript - - - /sbin/sulogin [17:47] <th> hardcoded [17:48] <mnemoc> outch [17:55] <blindcoder> daja77: pong [17:55] <blindcoder> th: it is [17:56] <th> blindcoder: yea i figured. i was confused how the first devs are created. but it's the udevstart from initscript which is started by /sbin/init itself [17:56] <daja77> blindcoder: I thought of registering a booth for rock at the linux info tag dresden, cutio is there perhaps, just wondering if you are interested? [17:56] <blindcoder> daja77: date? [17:57] <daja77> 2005-10-29 [17:57] <esden> huhu blindcoder [17:57] <blindcoder> hi esden *hug* [17:57] <blindcoder> daja77: let me get my palm [17:57] <esden> blindcoder: *rehug* [17:58] <blindcoder> saturday [17:58] <blindcoder> daja77: cost? [17:58] <daja77> erh nothing apart from driving I guess [17:59] <blindcoder> sounds good [17:59] <daja77> and perhaps if you want to stay at night there, what I don't want to [17:59] <blindcoder> when does it start? ie, when do I have to get up :) [18:01] <blindcoder> esden: I'm currently setting up a backup mechanism on pallas [18:01] <daja77> guess like last year, talks starting at 10 [18:01] <blindcoder> sound good to me [18:01] <esden> blindcoder: very well ... what kind of backup? [18:01] <daja77> so it should be enough when we are there between 9 and 10 [18:02] <blindcoder> esden: taper and then using ftp to copy to zero's server [18:02] <esden> backup only ... or also a recovery possibility? :P [18:02] <esden> humm ... ok [18:02] <esden> I hope that it is enough [18:02] <blindcoder> esden: also recovery :P [18:02] <esden> I hope so [18:02] <daja77> cool so I'll register and ask on the ml later of somebody likes to join [18:03] <esden> daja77: -> query [18:03] <blindcoder> esden: well, the stuff I currently back up is already ~1GB compressed [18:03] <blindcoder> daja77: okay :) [18:03] <daja77> it is just that we are nearest ;) [18:03] <esden> humm ... so it is not a full backup? [18:03] <blindcoder> esden: It worked fine on my "Gesellenstueck" at Siemens and AFAIK it is still in use there [18:03] <daja77> esden: there is nothing in that query, perhaps you haven't registered ... [18:03] <blindcoder> esden: full backup on sunday night, incremental backup until saturday, lather, rinse, repeat [18:03] <esden> O_O? [18:04] <blindcoder> esden: you are not identified to nickserv [18:04] <esden> grrr... [18:04] <blindcoder> esden: you should read global notices :) [18:04] <esden> so why are queries not forwarded? [18:04] <daja77> 15:51 [freenode] -!- Unregistered users cannot currently send private messages due to spambot problems. please register! [18:04] <blindcoder> esden: spambots [18:04] <esden> daja77: have you locked that or what? [18:04] <daja77> ... [18:04] <esden> :P [18:04] <esden> blaeh!!! [18:04] <daja77> and that sucks ... [18:05] <esden> ok ... now I am registred!!! [18:05] Action: esden kicking lilo ;) [18:05] <daja77> ^^ [18:05] <blindcoder> esden: I will backup all /home/*/Mail /home/*/public_html and /home/*/BACKUP directories [18:05] <blindcoder> esden: as well as a dozen other things I think are necessary [18:05] <blindcoder> esden: if you have another idea, tell me. current list is in /backup/backmeup [18:05] <blindcoder> I'll make dinner now, brb [18:05] <esden> daja77: did you get something now? [18:06] <daja77> yep [18:06] <esden> blindcoder: what about our websites? [18:06] <esden> and databases? [18:07] <blindcoder> esden: /home/www /home/mysql and /home/svn are already in backup [18:07] <esden> ahh good [18:08] <esden> perhups real mysql dumps every week or month would be nice? [18:08] <blindcoder> hmm [18:08] <blindcoder> need to try that [18:09] <blindcoder> also, /etc /var/spool/mail and /usr/games/lib are in the backup [18:13] <th> anyone familiar with writing udev rules? [18:13] <blindcoder> a bit [18:14] <blindcoder> already had quite a run-in with udev... [18:14] <daja77> hm if i got that right today then 2.6.13 has new rules [18:15] <blindcoder> udev isn't in the kernel [18:15] <blindcoder> it's in userspace [18:15] <blindcoder> that's what makes it so crappy [18:15] <esden> ok .. I have to go [18:15] <esden> cu guys [18:15] <blindcoder> bye [18:15] <th> cya esden [18:16] <th> crappy because it's in userspace? [18:17] <blindcoder> well, not only that [18:17] <blindcoder> but because IT ALWAYS RETURNS WITH 0 EVEN IF THERE ARE A THOUSAND ERRORS! [18:17] <blindcoder> oh, and it doesn't log them _ANYWHERE_ [18:18] <blindcoder> no sysfs? exit(0); [18:18] <blindcoder> errors in the rules file? exit(0); [18:18] <blindcoder> no hotplug? exit(0); [18:18] <daja77> ic you like it ;) [18:18] <blindcoder> everything fine? exit(0); [18:18] Action: daja77 hides [18:18] <blindcoder> like a hole in my head, yes [18:18] <th> oh yea that's cra [18:18] <th> p [18:19] <blindcoder> took me around three hours to get it running the first time [18:19] <th> i'm trying to bring udev to stable [18:19] <th> and need a compat ruleset [18:19] <daja77> cool [18:19] <blindcoder> there's already ide-devfs.sh and scsi-devfs.sh scripts [18:19] <th> these rule files look ugly [18:19] <th> blindcoder: the scsi one does not work [18:19] <blindcoder> th: best use the ones in trunk [18:20] <blindcoder> hmm [18:20] <blindcoder> do I have to be surprised? [18:20] <th> i've a vmware running with scsi discs [18:20] <blindcoder> great :( [18:21] <th> hmm well /dev/{ide,scsi} works. [18:21] <th> i'm missing /dev/discs [18:22] <blindcoder> aaah [18:22] <blindcoder> just a moment [18:24] <blindcoder> th: https://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/ide-devfs.sh [18:24] <blindcoder> I modified ide-devfs.sh for this [18:24] <blindcoder> maybe you can use the same for scsi-devfs.sh [18:24] <th> ugly mime/type [18:24] <th> ahhh [18:24] <th> cool [18:24] <th> reading [18:24] <blindcoder> yeah, stone me [18:25] Action: daja77 throwing a stone at blindcoder [18:25] <blindcoder> *ouch* well, that was to be expected [18:26] <th> blindcoder: that one is _not_ your modified version [18:26] <blindcoder> not? [18:26] <blindcoder> hmm [18:26] <blindcoder> then I modified something else [18:27] <blindcoder> can you give me the line in 50-udev.rules that handles IDE devices? [18:27] <th> BUS="ide", KERNEL="hd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh %k %b %n", NAME="%k", SYMLINK="%c{1} %c{2}", GROUP="%c{3}" [18:27] <th> this one? [18:28] <blindcoder> BUS=="ide", KERNEL=="hd[a-z]*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh %k %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK+="%k %c{2}" [18:28] <blindcoder> that is mine [18:28] <th> "=="? [18:28] <blindcoder> yes [18:28] <blindcoder> which udev version are you running? [18:28] <th> .68 [18:28] <blindcoder> 063 here [18:29] <th> so you have no GROUP= and some %c %k diffs [18:29] <blindcoder> yes [18:30] <blindcoder> and I have /dev/discs/ [18:30] <th> yea strange [18:30] <th> perhaps i would have /dev/discs if i only had a ide disk [18:30] <blindcoder> hmm [18:30] <blindcoder> wait [18:31] <blindcoder> th: https://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/scsi-devfs.sh [18:31] <th> i've a /dev/cdroms/ [18:31] <blindcoder> have a look at that [18:31] <th> that one differs from the .68 version [18:31] <th> (ide-devfs.sh did not) [18:32] <blindcoder> yeah, I think made changes to that one since my usb sticks register as scsi disks [18:32] <th> i see [18:32] <blindcoder> been some time, memory is fuzzy [18:32] <th> let's see [18:33] <th> hmm nothing yet [18:33] <th> perhaps i should start to understand that ugliness [18:33] <blindcoder> restarted? [18:33] <blindcoder> reattached the scsi devices? [18:33] <daja77> voodoo for the masses [18:33] <th> i did: [18:33] <th> rm -rf /dev/* [18:33] <th> and udevstart [18:33] <blindcoder> sounds like it wouldn't work to me [18:34] <blindcoder> better reboot [18:34] <th> that's not yet possible ;) [18:34] Action: blindcoder fondly remembers the times of devfs where everything just worked [18:34] <th> the /dev/cdroms/ stuff worked with rm+udevstart [18:35] <blindcoder> I see [18:35] <blindcoder> what's the scsi line in 50-udev.rules? [18:35] <blindcoder> or lines [18:35] <th> taken from scsi-devfs.sh [18:35] <blindcoder> I have four lines for that [18:36] <blindcoder> ah yeah [18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sd %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}" [18:36] <blindcoder> you need to add %c{5} at the end [18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sr*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sr %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}" [18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="st*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh st %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}" [18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sg*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sg %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}" [18:36] <blindcoder> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sd %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4} %c{5}" [18:36] <blindcoder> like this [18:36] <th> yes [18:37] <th> thanks [18:37] <th> that's it [18:38] <th> blindcoder: thanks man [18:38] <blindcoder> you're welcome [18:38] <blindcoder> maybe we should add that change to ROCK [18:38] <daja77> send a patch ;) [18:38] <th> i'd say: only to stable [18:38] <blindcoder> I'm somehow reluctant contacting whoever created udev [18:38] <blindcoder> I'm afraid his insanity might rub off [18:39] <daja77> th: why? [18:39] <th> hmm [18:40] <daja77> 3.0 should be usable too ;) [18:40] <th> i dont really like the /dev/discs/ thing [18:40] <th> well [18:40] <th> i DO like it - but it had some strange effects for me in stable [18:40] <th> perhaps that was devfs specific only [18:40] <th> i need to check that [18:41] <daja77> well but I do and I tell you why, some crappy ide usb stuff is changeing the /dev/scsi...id everytime I connect the device, so I can't handle it in fstab that way, but with the /dev/discs symlink it is always the same name [18:42] <th> yea true [18:42] <th> very true [18:42] <th> as i said: "i DO like it" [18:42] <daja77> :) [18:42] <th> and it might very well be that the effects were related to devfsd only [18:42] <daja77> I am not sure [18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{idProduct}=="0702", SYSFS{idVendor}=="05e3", NAME="discs/mobiledisk/part%n" [18:43] <daja77> it looks like the kernel does not "free" a once used id and reserving a new one instead [18:43] <blindcoder> always the same name [18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{serial}=="484A1E0001CB", NAME="acer_stick%n" [18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{product}=="TS128MJF2A", NAME="transcend_stick%n" [18:43] <blindcoder> same for these [18:43] <th> blindcoder: what if i have 5 sticks from the same manuf? [18:44] <blindcoder> th: use the serial number [18:44] <daja77> well I am talking of some sane defaults that I can handle without touching stuff like that [18:44] <blindcoder> daja77: then you're off the scope as far as udev is concerned [18:44] <blindcoder> daja77: udev _expects_ you to do stuff like that [18:44] <th> no [18:44] <th> that's not true [18:44] <daja77> think of the livecd ... [18:45] <daja77> you just don't know which devices a user will connect [18:45] <blindcoder> th: yes it does. it comes up everytime the author talks about udev [18:45] <blindcoder> daja77: *nod* [18:45] <blindcoder> that's why my /dev/discs/ hack makes sense [18:45] <th> blindcoder: well then it needs another abstraction layer [18:46] <blindcoder> th: udev needs being dumped, end of story. [18:46] <daja77> seems that there is no sane chance of dumping it [18:46] <th> blindcoder: you shouldn't have any problem as soon as you have made udev behave like devfs did. and that IS possible [18:46] <blindcoder> daja77: I have my opinion. Please don't confuse me with facts. [18:47] <th> hehe [18:47] <daja77> hehe [18:47] <blindcoder> th: yes, and that's what I did to the scsi-devfs.sh script [18:47] <blindcoder> th: and why it should be either directly in udev (which I fear of trying to achieve) or at least in both ROCK trees [18:47] <th> blindcoder: k - so no need to dump udev any longer? [18:48] <blindcoder> th: only if you are fine with a userspace solution [18:48] <th> sure i am. that's why i prefer udev in genereal [18:48] <th> and i'm fine with /dev/discs in both trees [18:48] <th> i was just unsure [18:49] <th> because of strange readings i had [18:49] <th> like some recursion problem with /dev/discs/ [18:49] <blindcoder> well, it took me a lot of time to get running fine for the first time whereas devfs really just worked [18:51] <blindcoder> and I don't like having even more programs in LVP [18:51] <blindcoder> they're taking up more space than devfs did [18:51] <th> you dont need the daemon - do you? [18:52] <blindcoder> probably not [18:52] <blindcoder> but I had strange effects with udevstart without a running udevd [18:52] <th> there is a udev binary... what the hell is that for? [18:52] <blindcoder> that is called by hotplug [18:52] <th> k [18:56] <blindcoder> bbl [19:31] <th> hmm /etc/initscript gets called multiple times. that's strange [19:59] <th> need to inspect init source code [19:59] <th> very strange [20:01] <th> initscript ist called for EVERY spawn that /sbin/init does. [20:02] <mnemoc> oh [20:03] <mnemoc> sysvinit sucks :) [20:03] <netrunner> my poor colleagues [20:03] Action: netrunner looking at big can with zaziki [20:12] <blindcoder> hehe [20:21] <th> /etc/initscript feels like the wrong place to run udevstart for me [20:23] owl (n=owl@karnaya.de) joined #rocklinux. [20:23] <owl> moin [21:41] <th> is there any reason why stable should NOT update to newest coreutils? (5.2.1 in trunk; 5.0 in stable) [21:42] <mnemoc> no problems i guess [21:44] <th> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on [21:44] <th> /dev/ 4.0G 2.9G 1.1G 74% / [21:44] <th> /dev/bus/pci/domain0000/bus00/slot10/function0/scsi/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 [21:44] <th> 84M 5.7M 74M 8% /boot [21:44] <th> that's just ugly [21:44] <th> i hope newer coreutils do better [21:45] <th> hmmm [21:46] <th> that might be just a matter of /etc/init.d/system writing the mtab [21:48] <cutio> /dev on / ? [21:58] Nick change: _hannes_ -> _hannes [22:02] <th> cutio: "/dev/" init.d/system's try to change /dev/root into something more usefull [22:02] <th> but this udev does not have /dev/root so it failed to resolve [22:04] <th> blindcoder: do you have a /dev/root in your udev? [22:05] <cutio> th: i do [22:06] <th> cutio: can i see the lines in the udev config for that/ [22:06] Action: daja77 building 2.6.13 [22:07] <th> daja77: so you are on udev too? [22:07] <daja77> good question perhaps a mix of devfs an udev [22:08] <th> daja77: do you have a /dev/root? [22:09] <cutio> th: i didnt do something, it was there since udev is running? x_x [22:09] <daja77> hm no, but a /dev/rd [22:09] <th> daja77: that's ramdisk [22:09] <daja77> ah k. [22:09] <th> cutio: do you have a rootfs.sh in /etc/udev/scripts? [22:10] <th> there is some trivial approach which just reads /proc/cmdline [22:10] <cutio> nope [22:11] <cutio> There's no rootfs.sh [22:14] <th> cutio: can you please `grep -r cmdline /etc/udev` ? [22:15] <cutio> nothing found [22:15] <th> strange [22:15] <th> that's udev? [22:21] <H-K> ls [22:21] <H-K> oops =) [22:24] <cutio> brr got dns problems [22:25] <cutio> th: well uhm.. ive devfs on this machine here, i forgot that only my other pc uses udev =( [22:25] <cutio> allthough its prepared here too [22:31] <th> i think /dev/root is to point to exactly what's given on kernel append line as root= [22:31] <th> which means: reading /proc/cmdline to setup /dev/root is legit [22:36] <daja77> damn 2.6.13 doesn't work on devfs orientatzed userlands [22:37] <netrunner> daja77: I mentioned that a few weeks ago ... [22:38] <daja77> sigh [22:38] <daja77> damn it [22:41] <th> anyone has udev enabled trunk running? [22:42] <mnemoc> daja77: devfs removed? [22:42] <daja77> I can't find it [22:42] <netrunner> yes [22:43] <th> netrunner: do you have /dev/root ? [22:43] <th> i feel like adding the following to /etc/conf/devfs (and devfs stands for any dev-fs here (devfs,udev,static): [22:43] <daja77> my userland is so old that stone only knows about hwscan and rockplug ... [22:43] <th> if ! test -e /dev/root ; then [22:43] <th> grep -q 'root=' /proc/cmdline && ln -s "`cat /proc/cmdline| sed 's/.*root=\([^ ]*\).*/\1/'`" /dev/root [22:43] <th> fi [22:46] <th> which creates /dev/root by reading /proc/cmdline [22:48] <daja77> wtf devfs is still in teh kernel but you can't configure it? [22:48] <th> yes [22:48] <th> removing everything was propably too hard [22:48] <daja77> what does it is still in the kernel means in that cas [22:48] <daja77> e [22:49] <daja77> i see no difference [22:49] <daja77> i don't want to change the rest of the system, becaue it will die soon anyway ... [22:51] <netrunner> th: no [22:51] <mnemoc> acording to Bertl from vserver devfs was just 'hidden' and not removed [22:51] <th> netrunner: cool [22:51] <netrunner> th: I use udev if that affects your issue [22:51] <th> netrunner: yea - it's good to know [22:52] <th> netrunner: so i'll send a patch which gives us /dev/root back [22:52] <daja77> so how can I activate it [22:52] <netrunner> th: which is of what use? [22:52] <th> netrunner: can i see your /proc/mounts please? [22:52] <th> rootfs only [22:54] <netrunner> /dev/root / ext3 rw 0 0 [22:55] <mnemoc> daja77: https://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.6/13-rc3/fs/Kconfig <--- revert the patch that removes DEVSF_* from Kconfig [22:55] <netrunner> commit 2c6e5a839f92591a4bc6cac4a575d42151645af3 [22:55] <netrunner> Author: Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> [22:55] <netrunner> Date: Tue Jun 21 15:24:19 2005 -0700 [22:55] <netrunner> [PATCH] devfs: remove devfs from Kconfig preventing it from being built [22:55] <th> netrunner: fine. and the corresponding entry in /etc/mtab? [22:56] <netrunner> /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part6 / ext3 rw 0 0 [22:56] <th> netrunner: cool - and the part where the mtab is created? /etc/init.d/system propably? [22:57] <netrunner> sed "s,^/dev/root ,$rootdev ," > /etc/mtab || error=$? [22:58] <th> that's incomplete. the line before please [22:58] <th> owell no [22:59] <th> the line where $rootdev is set [22:59] <th> rootdev="/dev/$(ls -l /dev/root | sed 's,.* -> ,,')" [23:01] <netrunner> rootdev="/dev/$(ls -l /dev/root 2> /dev/null | sed 's,.* -> ,,')" [23:01] <mnemoc> daja77: https://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/delta-devfs.diff [23:01] <th> netrunner: so i assume you have a devfs mounted below your udev [23:02] <th> netrunner: which provides /dev/root symlink to you [23:02] <th> netrunner: so you can populate your /etc/mtab correctly [23:04] <netrunner> th: well probably I have a kernel that has automount devfs, which is later moved to /dev/devfs by udevd [23:05] <th> netrunner: correct. now image you're going to use 2.6.13 which lacks devfs [23:05] <th> netrunner: so who's going to provide /dev/root for you? [23:06] <th> btw: the mount --move for /dev (devfs) to /dev/devfs is done by /etc/initscript not udevd [23:10] <netrunner> th: I was wildly guessing. currently debugging some floating point exceptions. [23:12] <th> netrunner: i just wanted to explain why we /dev/root [23:12] <netrunner> th: O stoöö dpm [23:12] <netrunner> I still don't get what I need /dev/root for [23:12] <th> still - a kernel without devfs can mount root for me. (root=/dev/sda2) [23:13] <netrunner> th: I always provide root=/dev/foo for the kernel. [23:13] <th> netrunner: you need it to have a correct /etc/mtab - you need it to know what your rootfs is [23:13] <daja77> here it couldn't [23:13] <th> netrunner: as udev runs in userspace kernel wont provide a /dev/root for you (as it did with devfs) [23:14] <th> daja77: i meant s/can/can't/ [23:14] <daja77> ok [23:14] <th> of course root=/dev/scsi/... can't work [23:14] <netrunner> th: so the problem is not the kernel but the initscript that fills the mtab [23:14] <th> that would be naming policy [23:14] <th> netrunner: and other userspace tools [23:14] <th> netrunner: coorect. [23:15] <netrunner> can float be negative? [23:15] <th> netrunner: one idea would be to use /proc/cmdline in /etc/init.d/system directly [23:16] <th> netrunner: yes [23:21] <th> daja77: i think kernel should decode root parameter into major/minor numbers [23:22] <daja77> I think the guy who made that lousy devfs removal patch should be shot in the foot [23:22] <netrunner> hm, maybe I shouldn't divide by 0 [23:22] <daja77> sounds like a good start [23:23] <netrunner> ah, works :) [23:23] <netrunner> only that I play for the opponent :) [23:36] <th> does udev require initramfs stuff? cant believe that [23:37] <th> so no one here has a non-devfs udev system running? [23:37] <daja77> exactly [23:37] <mnemoc> :) [23:38] <th> i'd say some root=/dev/ram magic would work. but i dont want to initrd now [23:39] <daja77> if you have same patches i'd boot a devfs free system [23:39] <daja77> build* [23:41] <th> the only point that i'm missing at the moment is how the kernel mounts root [23:41] <th> create_dev("/dev/root", ROOT_DEV, root_device_name); [23:41] <th> mount_block_root("/dev/root", root_mountflags); [23:41] <th> pretty straight [23:43] <mnemoc> rene was two days fighting with the pivot_root replacement kernel did reciently, to something called switch_root afaik [23:44] <mnemoc> i guess thy also did changes on /dev/root defining [23:47] <th> yea the whole klibc initramfs stuff [23:48] <th> but i want to be able to boot a plain kernel [23:48] <th> without enriching it with initramfs or handing it initr [23:48] <th> d [23:59] <daja77> btw the laptop is up and running 2.6.13 atm [00:00] --- Tue Aug 30 2005