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[00:13] SteffenP (i=steffen@p549951BC.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "https://www.bomberclone.de" [00:26] lonn (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:48] kasc_ (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-098-141.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [02:55] kasc (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-101-103.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:55] Nick change: kasc_ -> kasc [07:05] <blindcoder> moin [07:07] <blindcoder> hmm [07:07] <blindcoder> sf.net cvs server hostname changes [07:07] <blindcoder> yummy [07:27] <blindcoder> th: ping [07:27] <blindcoder> th: _very_ important: 2006051207270727907 [08:48] <th> blindcoder: done [08:48] <th> stf^rocklinux: plong [08:51] <blindcoder> th: thanks [08:52] Action: blindcoder now testing a modinfo-based mkinitrd, then leaving for work [08:52] <th> "modinfo-based mkinitrd"? [08:56] <blindcoder> see https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/?mode=patch&uid=2006050710255056650 [08:57] <th> that's only tinkering around the problem. [09:00] <blindcoder> which problem? [09:03] <blindcoder> note to self: attend a Mind-Reading-over-IRC program [09:09] <blindcoder> brb [09:09] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-039-185.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [09:13] <blindcoder> hmm [09:13] <blindcoder> I still don't have /dev/cdrom in LVP [09:13] <blindcoder> anyway, gotta go to work now [09:13] <blindcoder> bbl [09:19] daja77_ (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-040-198.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [09:51] <blindcoder> re [09:55] <blindcoder> hmm [09:55] <blindcoder> it just might be because I'm lacking a /dev/disk directory [09:56] <th> blindcoder: please dont blame udev again. [09:56] <blindcoder> I do? [09:58] <th> i'm just asking you not to. [09:59] <blindcoder> I guess the problem lies somewhere else, anyway [09:59] <blindcoder> because in my running system I have /dev/disk [09:59] <blindcoder> but I'm not creating it anywhere [10:00] <blindcoder> th: will you enlighten me now about the "problem" you mentioned earlier? [10:03] <blindcoder> th: or can I assume that there isn't really a problem at all? [10:04] <th> blindcoder: well. your patch fixes just another small problem, no? [10:05] <blindcoder> th: so I shouldn't solve that problem? [10:05] <blindcoder> or is it not worth fixing because it's "small"? [10:18] <stf^rocklinux> moin [10:19] <stf^rocklinux> th: just wanted to say that I use 2006051109432731480 and it works quite well here [10:20] <stf^rocklinux> I'd like to see it in trunk soon :) [10:20] <th> ok cool [10:20] <th> stf^rocklinux: do you use these rules only, or did you test the initramfs as well? [10:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: the only thing not auto-loaded here are oss compat modules, but hwscan does that [10:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: only the rules yet [10:21] <netrunner> blindcoder: that directory is created by udev when applying the rules from /etc/udev/rulesd [10:22] <stf^rocklinux> I think 2006051122554025764 would be useful too (enabling hal and dbus by default) [10:22] <th> stf^rocklinux: would be cool if you could test the mkinitramfs as well. i'm using it productive - i just need some more testers [10:22] <stf^rocklinux> th: I'll give it a try this weekend [10:22] <th> thanks [10:23] <stf^rocklinux> np :) [10:25] <stf^rocklinux> bbl [10:25] <blindcoder> netrunner: figured as much [10:25] <blindcoder> netrunner: that means that I probably still lack some stuff in the kernel [10:25] <th> blindcoder: you could try to enable devfs. *scnr* [10:26] <blindcoder> th: if you want to go on my nerves then please just tell me [10:26] <blindcoder> th: I'm trying to get some work done here [10:26] <blindcoder> th: and if you don't want to tell me everything you have to say about a topic, don't say anything at all [10:27] <th> blindcoder: i'm not holding anything back [10:27] <blindcoder> so answer my question [10:27] <blindcoder> 10:00 < blindcoder> th: so I shouldn't solve that problem? [10:27] <blindcoder> 10:01 < blindcoder> or is it not worth fixing because it's "small"? [10:28] <th> blindcoder: it's as i said. i consider the works on rockinitrd "tinkering" and would prefer a sane initramfs approach [10:28] <th> blindcoder: the slickness of the mkinitramfs is somewhat obvious. [10:29] <blindcoder> th: so why don't I see a patch in submaster? [10:29] <blindcoder> th: so why don't I see a post on the mailinglist? [10:29] <th> blindcoder: because there is none. it's in a pre-patch status. i want to get some serious comments and test results. [10:29] <blindcoder> all I see is behaviour that I would consider backstabbing [10:30] <blindcoder> so it's pre-patch status, ie unusable? [10:30] <th> i use it in production. as a drop-in replacement for my prior initrd [10:30] <blindcoder> right now, the rockinitrd package has a few advantages: [10:30] <blindcoder> it's in trunk [10:30] <blindcoder> it's integrated into various packages [10:30] <blindcoder> and it does what it is being told to do [10:31] <th> the latter is just your prejudicness. [10:31] <blindcoder> and "fixing a bug" is not what I call "tinkering" [10:31] <th> the integration is no advantage but more a disadvantage [10:32] <blindcoder> HUH? [10:32] <th> and it's not yet in trunk, because it's not yet backed by the community [10:32] <blindcoder> oooooooh [10:32] <blindcoder> so now we may only submit patches that are "backed by the community"? [10:32] <blindcoder> what is "the community"? [10:32] <blindcoder> you, fake and clifford? [10:33] <th> with "backed by the community" i meant "some support/words from someone != myself" [10:33] <th> there is no need to rant. i intend no offense. [10:34] <blindcoder> well, here's my word: make it so that it supports all that initrd supports now and I'm fine with either solution [10:34] <blindcoder> until then, I will fix the problem that arise in the current one [10:34] <th> the only ranting which i have to admit is what i call echo for your udev ranting. [10:35] <blindcoder> ie: I want dm-crypt support in initramfs that is compatible to the one in initrd now [10:35] <blindcoder> otherwise it'd be an inferior solution to an already solved problem [10:35] <th> compatible with which version? it's still not self-compatible [10:36] <th> i think we should aim for compatability with something which is a common standard. [10:36] <th> not with something homebrew [10:36] <blindcoder> the standard is dm-crypt from the linux kernel [10:37] <th> i'm talking of a standard for key setups [10:37] <blindcoder> I suggested the change in setup of the encryption because SMP pointed out a problem with it [10:37] <th> i know that much [10:37] <blindcoder> if you have a problem with the new/old version, say it in submaster or rock-devel where people can read and comment it even if they happen to not be here right now [10:38] <blindcoder> saying "XYZ sucks" here is as good as writing it to /dev/null [10:38] <th> i did not say that. [10:38] <th> i made the proposal to follow some known standard [10:38] <blindcoder> besides, why not just use the provided plugin interface? [10:39] <blindcoder> then everything is fine [10:39] <blindcoder> there is none [10:39] <blindcoder> at least none that I am aware of [10:39] <th> i think a foobar.d/ directory is a "plugin interface" [10:39] <th> https://luks.endorphin.org/ [10:39] <blindcoder> the standard is "give dmsetup a passphrase" [10:40] <th> debian, fedora, suse, mandrake, even MSwindows [10:40] <th> and "give dmsetup a passphrase" is what usually breaks compatibility [10:40] <blindcoder> so why do you only bring this up NOW and HERE? [10:40] <th> because i'm answering to your words. [10:41] <blindcoder> so up til now you've been brooding over this, silently cursing me for doing incompatible stuff? [10:42] <th> no. i was not "brooding" only slightly ignorant about your approach while testing another. [10:42] <blindcoder> aaah, so you were fine with wasting manpower which is increasingly sparse in ROCK anyway [10:42] <blindcoder> now I see [10:43] <th> you're ranting again. [10:43] <blindcoder> no, I want an explanation of why you refuse to point these things out when they occur to you [10:44] <th> i just do. [10:44] ija_ (n=ija@84.19.218.37) joined #rocklinux. [10:44] <blindcoder> should I now approach you before I submit a patch: "Oh great th, do you know of a better way to do this?" [10:45] <th> it seems that if i dont do what you propose you call it brooding. [10:45] <blindcoder> I always thought submaster was there for reviewing and discussing patches [10:45] <blindcoder> which clearly isn't happening or you would have brought this up a lot sooner [10:45] <th> and there is no patch yet. because it's just not clear how to bring it into trunk [10:46] <blindcoder> harddisk encryption using dm-crypt isn't in rock since only yesterday [10:46] <th> i had no problems with the dm-crypt ongoings before. [10:47] <th> and the only thing i do now is the proposal to follow some standard. [10:47] <blindcoder> so why didn't you bring that up sooner? [10:47] <blindcoder> besides, the 'not following a standard' also was your argument for not integrating harddisk encryption into your initramfs [10:50] <th> (sorry for delay; back now) [10:50] <th> why not sooner? i brought my mkinitramfs work up only few hours after i started thinking about it. [10:51] <th> and my knowledge about that standard is from SMP and only few days old. [10:51] <th> so i'm bringing it up as early as it was/is possible [10:51] <blindcoder> I found one mail on rock-devel containing "initramfs" [10:51] <th> "besides, the 'not following a standard' also was your argument for not integrating harddisk encryption into your initramfs" could you repeat this somehow please? [10:52] <blindcoder> 10:30 < blindcoder> ie: I want dm-crypt support in initramfs that is compatible to the one in initrd now [10:52] <blindcoder> 10:31 < th> compatible with which version? it's still not self-compatible [10:52] <blindcoder> 10:32 < th> i think we should aim for compatability with something which is a common standard. [10:52] <th> i'm not absolutely not against dm-crypt in initramfs. [10:52] <th> it should be fairly easy [10:53] <th> but _i_ dont want to put the current approach into it. because i'd prefer something more standard. [10:53] <th> but i've no problem at all if you just put your script in there. [10:53] <blindcoder> th: I also prefer a "standard" way if there is one [10:53] <blindcoder> which is why I'm currently looking into cryptsetup-luks [10:54] <th> as you said: < blindcoder> the standard is "give dmsetup a passphrase" [10:54] <th> there is the needed standard [10:54] <blindcoder> that's the one I knew of [10:54] <blindcoder> if there is a de facto standard of software harddisk encryption (which cryptsetup-luks seems to be) then we should obviously use that [10:55] <th> that's what i think. [10:55] <th> and i still dont understand why you feel so offended. [10:55] <blindcoder> because your behaviour feels like backstabbing [10:55] <th> can you point this out to me? [10:55] <blindcoder> always going on about how my work on initrd is futile [10:56] <th> ahh the tinkering. [10:56] ija (n=ija@84.19.218.47) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [10:56] <th> yea sorry for that. [10:57] <blindcoder> then when I point out that I don't care if it's initrd or initramfs as long as the new version has the same features as the old version you go on to point out flaws in another thing I put a lot of work into [10:57] <th> i just think that it's time for initramfs. and you seem to be holding on the rockinitrd. and i guess that's because of your dislike for udev [10:58] <th> yes, and you did not they "thanks" for pointing out the flaws. [10:58] <th> i guess i did as you pointed out the /sbin not in $PATH issue for my mkinitramfs [10:58] <blindcoder> if udev works (which it seems to do in recent versions) I'm as happy as a child in a candystore [10:59] Nick change: ija_ -> ija [10:59] <blindcoder> when devfs was removed from the kernel udev definately was not ready as a replacement [11:00] <blindcoder> please don't get me wrong, I _am_ thankful for pointing out problems with my code [11:00] <blindcoder> but my gratefulness varies a lot depending on the presentation of the problems [11:00] <th> "you go on to point out flaws in" .. sounded like you're charging me for it. [11:01] <blindcoder> for example consider this: "I found out that a lot of distributions use this to encrypt filesystems. <link> Maybe we should do it that way, too?" [11:02] <blindcoder> sound a lot more friendly than what I read in my IRC backlog [11:03] <th> yea - our thread was not the most friendly one at that point. [11:04] <blindcoder> yeah, sorry about that. probably my fault for being too proud of my work [11:09] <th> no need to excuse. i did not feel offended. [11:17] <blindcoder> I see one thing that I don't like about LUKS: it is install-time only. You can't convert to/from it after installation [11:18] <th> i somehow doubt that [11:19] <blindcoder> luks works like this: [11:19] <th> but thats only a feeling [11:19] <blindcoder> let's say this is your harddisk: [11:19] <blindcoder> |----------------------------| [11:19] <blindcoder> then luks takes the first 1032 blocks? bytes? [11:19] <blindcoder> |LUKS|-----------------------| [11:20] <blindcoder> in this it stores the actual encryption keys which can be unlocked with a passphrase [11:20] <th> these bytes are unused anyways, no? [11:20] <blindcoder> no [11:20] <blindcoder> they are used [11:20] <blindcoder> at least they are accessible by /dev/discs/disc0/part2 [11:20] <th> at least the first 512 are _not_ [11:20] <th> part2? [11:21] <th> ahh i was talking of a disk. [11:21] <blindcoder> or part1 or part3 or part4 [11:21] <th> not a part [11:21] <blindcoder> ah, sorry [11:21] <blindcoder> should have said partition [11:21] <blindcoder> anyway, we _could_ do this [11:21] <blindcoder> ugly, but hey :) [11:22] <blindcoder> we could generally create our filesystems with an offset of 1032 blocks using device-mapper [11:22] <blindcoder> which would probably enable us to switch to and from LUKS at the expense of half a megabyte per partition [11:22] <th> long time ago that i had a filesystem on a partition ;) [11:23] <th> so i'm not really aware of these "small problems" hehe [11:23] <th> once you get used to LVM... [11:23] <blindcoder> well, my machines mostly have just one disk [11:23] <blindcoder> --- /dev/discs/disc0/part2 [11:23] <blindcoder> Block device, size 972.7 MiB (1019934720 bytes) [11:23] <blindcoder> --- /dev/mapper/foo [11:23] <blindcoder> Block device, size 972.2 MiB (1019406336 bytes) [11:23] <blindcoder> I think this is an acceptable tradeoff, really [11:23] <th> i'm on the road now. bbiaw [11:51] <esden> moin [11:52] <blindcoder> moin moin esden [11:53] treo (n=xfman@82.113.121.32) joined #rocklinux. [11:54] treo (n=xfman@82.113.121.32) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [13:29] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [13:45] codevoid_ (i=codevoid@bravo591.server4you.de) joined #rocklinux. [13:45] codevoid (n=codevoid@bravo591.server4you.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [13:52] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-2e18b5c945f75259) joined #rocklinux. [14:45] <blindcoder> re [14:46] <fake> hi [14:48] <blindcoder> moin fake [14:48] <fake> hidiho [14:48] <fake> blindcoder: great idea @modinfo [14:48] <fake> though i think we can totally drop all .o / 2.4 stuff [14:50] <blindcoder> I clearly remember someone still using ROCK with 2.4 [14:51] <blindcoder> so I wasn't keen on removing it [14:51] <blindcoder> fake: comments on my RFC? [14:53] <fake> blindcoder: pfff... i guess you know what you're doing [14:54] <blindcoder> of course I am. I just don't know what the result of what I'm doing will be :) [14:55] <fake> let's just see - if someone needs industrial-strength encryption, he'll tell if it is sucks or anything [14:57] <blindcoder> the encryption mechanism is the same, really [14:57] <blindcoder> just the way the passphrase is set up is different [14:58] <blindcoder> what speaks for luks is that "all the cool kids are doing it" [15:00] <fake> all the cool kids use gentoo, too [15:00] <fake> or ubuntu or something [15:00] <blindcoder> I've also sent a mail to the dm-crypt mailing explaining what I want to achieve, how I want to do it and asked for comments there [15:00] <fake> that's nice [15:00] <blindcoder> heh :) [15:01] <blindcoder> hmm [15:01] <blindcoder> the udev package is broken in LVP :( [15:07] <blindcoder> /sys/block/hd[bcd] are present [15:07] <blindcoder> and look sane [15:07] <blindcoder> by they don't appear in /dev/ [15:17] <blindcoder> ARGH [15:20] <blindcoder> I'm absolutely sure I fixed this a while ago [15:22] <blindcoder> HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA [15:22] <blindcoder> works again :D [15:24] blindcod1r (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-d9d20775baff6a4c) joined #rocklinux. [15:24] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Nick collision from services. [15:24] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [15:26] <blindcoder> now this is totally fucked up... [15:26] <blindcoder> somethings severely broken in this build [15:27] <blindcoder> I just don't know why [15:28] <blindcoder> udev with an empty flist, files that shouldn't exist [15:29] <blindcoder> ah [15:29] <blindcoder> there they are [15:33] <blindcoder> at last, it works :D [16:22] madtux (i=miguel@pf0.hostarica.com) joined #rocklinux. [16:52] <blindcoder> YAY! [16:53] <blindcoder> next LVP version just around the corenr :D [17:35] _headup_ (n=lf@200.24.51.172) joined #rocklinux. [17:51] <esden> YEY! I will order my MBP 17" on monday!!! woot! [18:10] <blindcoder> MBP 17"? [18:13] _headup_ (n=lf@200.24.51.172) left #rocklinux. [18:30] lonn (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) joined #rocklinux. [18:32] <esden> blindcoder: MacBook Pro 17" with 1GB Ram, 120GB Disk, 2,16Ghz CoreDuo, ISight, 17" display, SuperDrive (burns DVD's and so on) ;) [18:37] Action: blindcoder shakes his head [18:37] <blindcoder> I really wonder how you students have so much money on your hands [19:23] <esden> blindcoder: erm ... I work hard and still live like a student ... so I spend nearly to no money but earn a bit ... that is the trick [19:26] <blindcoder> I see [19:26] <blindcoder> maybe I should cut down on blackjack and hookers [19:27] <esden> that would be an idea ;) [19:35] SteffenP (n=steffen@fortuna.bingo-ev.de) joined #rocklinux. [19:42] <blindcoder> *grunt* [19:42] <blindcoder> damn sourceforge [19:42] <blindcoder> <lvplayer-svncommit@lists.sourceforge.net>: message size 1106719 exceeds size [19:42] <blindcoder> limit 1048576 of server mail.sourceforge.net[66.35.250.206] [19:50] <blindcoder> YAY! [19:50] <blindcoder> LVP 0.5.3 tagged and building :D [19:59] <esden> damn sf because of the broken CVS currently >_< [19:59] <esden> that sucks the most [19:59] Action: esden -> home [19:59] <esden> cu l8er [20:03] <blindcoder> esden: broken cvs? [20:03] <blindcoder> esden: works fine here [20:19] <mnemoc> they are switching to SVN and they also changed the hostname pattern [20:19] <blindcoder> yeah, already changed that [20:19] <blindcoder> and they are not "switching to svn" [20:19] <blindcoder> they offer svn and cvs [20:23] <blindcoder> anyway, i could download from sf.net cvs repositories just fine [20:26] <mnemoc> :) [20:26] <blindcoder> anyway, the ice cream awaits [20:26] <blindcoder> bbl [21:02] ija (n=ija@84.19.218.37) left irc: Remote closed the connection [21:02] ija (n=ija@84.19.218.37) joined #rocklinux. [21:34] lonn (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [21:46] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [21:46] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-778d9471acff8733) joined #rocklinux. [23:20] ringo (n=info@ip51cf58c9.direct-adsl.nl) joined #rocklinux. [00:00] --- Sat May 13 2006