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[00:10] <elon> aehm anybody in that can tell where /etc/rc.whatever is gone in rock-crystal-r7579 [00:17] <stf^rocklinux> let's see... [00:19] <stf^rocklinux> elon: what file are your looking for? There's a lot of files below /etc/rc.d/ in latest rev... [00:19] <elon> im looking for rc.conf ! [00:21] <stf^rocklinux> there's no such file in ROCK, see e.g. https://sonar.rocklinux.org [00:21] <elon> hm musst be new.. in my last rock there where the normal rc. scripts in /etc [00:21] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-033-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [00:22] <stf^rocklinux> elon: rc scripts are in /etc/rc.d/init.d/ [00:23] <stf^rocklinux> and there's also /etc/initscript, which is called for every entry in /etc/inittab [00:23] <elon> yes.. but i dont mean the script that are for init i mean scripts like /etc/rc.conf /etc/rc.local /etc/rc.shutdown eg [00:24] <elon> the laast rock i had was from Camp03.. there they were... [00:25] <elon> looks like configuring is now made in different locations [00:25] <stf^rocklinux> hmm, I've never used that release... you're most probably right and those files aren't used atm. [00:26] <stf^rocklinux> better ask a dev who has been with ROCK longer than me... [00:27] <elon> kk.. i'll search my way to the config files [00:28] <stf^rocklinux> I suggest to read a bit about System V init style (see `man init` for details`) if you're new to it :) [00:29] <stf^rocklinux> then it should be pretty straight-forward to change it to your liking [00:29] <elon> ok.. i'll do that tnx [00:32] <elon> i suppose i missed 'the new way' in linux /etc layout [00:34] daja77_ (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-032-253.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [03:14] <elon> cu [03:14] elon (n=elon@host7.zwelf.net) left irc: "leaving" [07:04] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [07:04] <blindcoder> moin [07:19] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-033-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) got netsplit. [07:19] ija (n=ija@84.19.222.252) got netsplit. [07:19] th (n=th@bozeman.hbsn.de) got netsplit. [07:19] mnemoc (n=amery@kilo105.server4you.de) got netsplit. [07:19] _Ragnar__ (i=loki@216.250.77.230) got netsplit. 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[12:19] <stf^rocklinux> moin [12:59] <stf^rocklinux> th: your journal requires a hotfix, see 2006062312534120523 [13:00] <th> Patch not found! [13:03] <stf^rocklinux> mom [13:07] <stf^rocklinux> th: see 2006062313064940010 [13:07] <stf^rocklinux> sm is obviously broken, as daja already noticed :/ [13:08] <th> oh ok - this fix looks really hot [13:09] <th> stf^rocklinux: do you have further test results? [13:09] <stf^rocklinux> not yet [13:10] <th> please let me know, once you do hae [13:10] <th> v [13:10] <stf^rocklinux> th: btw. what do you think of moving all CORE packages to base? [13:10] <th> nothing! [13:11] <th> we do have the CORE flag. [13:11] <daja77> :) [13:12] <th> hmm? [13:12] <stf^rocklinux> th: me too. blindcoder noticed that rockinitrd was moved to base... but as I see it that was a historical error. I'd rather move rockinitrd back to his repo. [13:14] <stf^rocklinux> there seems to another new error in latest crystal: [13:14] <stf^rocklinux> Freeing unused kernel memory: 224k freed [13:14] <stf^rocklinux> cp: will not create hard link `/dev/pts' to directory `/dev/bus/usb' [13:14] <stf^rocklinux> cp: will not create hard link `/dev/shm' to directory `/dev/bus/usb' [13:14] <stf^rocklinux> loading kernel modules [13:15] <th> hmm [13:17] <stf^rocklinux> ah well, and some irda-utils man pages are broken, causing lots of ugly looking output when running postinstall... [13:17] <stf^rocklinux> see e.g. man irnet [13:18] <th> sounds scky [13:19] <daja77> broken man pages ... that's sort of creative .. [13:20] <stf^rocklinux> ^^ [13:20] <stf^rocklinux> from man irnet: It use- [13:20] <stf^rocklinux> seI PPPein synchronous mode, because IrTTP ofmRible stequencd tackets serice v(as oppoed to [13:20] <stf^rocklinux> ac byt staeatm) [13:21] <th> check your $LANG ;-) [13:21] <th> sounds queer to me [13:21] <th> something far away [13:25] <blindcoder> re [13:26] <stf^rocklinux> wb blindcoder [13:27] <blindcoder> tnx [13:31] <stf^rocklinux> hm, I have no idea how this error with /dev/bus/usb can happen (but I'm pretty sure it happens in rockinitrd init script) [13:31] <stf^rocklinux> when the command `cp -r /lib/udev/devices/* /dev` is executed... [14:54] <stf^rocklinux> th: the /dev/bus/usb error is fixed in [2006062314523072770] [15:01] <blindcoder> NOOO! HARRIET DIED! [15:02] <mnemoc> ? [15:02] <blindcoder> Tom, Dick and Harry? [15:02] <blindcoder> Charles Darwin's turtles? [15:02] <mnemoc> o.o [15:03] <blindcoder> come on, are you a self-respecting nerd/geek or not? [15:03] <mnemoc> :( [15:04] <blindcoder> you know charles darwin? [15:04] <mnemoc> yep [15:04] <mnemoc> but i didn't know he had three turtles as mascots [15:04] <blindcoder> he had three turtles, name Tom, Dick and Harry [15:05] <blindcoder> Harry was later discovered to actually be female, thus renamed Harriet [15:05] <blindcoder> and she died last night :( [15:05] <mnemoc> is she the first or the last to die? [15:05] <blindcoder> hmm, good question [15:09] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: do you have a clue how my fix in 2006062314523072770 works? Because I don't :S [15:09] <mnemoc> blindcoder: how is your new cave? [15:10] <stf^rocklinux> it's not really important to know, but I just find it Very Strange (tm). [15:10] <blindcoder> mnemoc: I'll get the keys on July 17 [15:10] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: indeed it is [15:10] <mnemoc> blindcoder: ah, ok [15:12] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: no, no idea [15:14] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I'll attribute it to sun spot cycles, then ... [15:15] <blindcoder> hehe [16:21] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I spammed your email account again ... [16:23] <blindcoder> bless your little heart :) [16:25] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: but two can play that game! MUAHAHHAHA [16:27] <stf^rocklinux> hm? which game? are you planning to "spam back"? [16:27] <blindcoder> yeah :) [16:27] <daja77> .oO (stf^spammer) [16:28] <stf^rocklinux> o_O I'll go to the supermarket, then... [17:02] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [17:08] ija (n=ija@84.19.222.252) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [17:22] ija (n=ija@84.19.222.252) joined #rocklinux. [17:22] <stf^rocklinux> re [18:02] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-e7df5dd4f753a934) joined #rocklinux. [18:12] <blindcoder> /dev/md/0 699G 33M 699G 1% /mnt/generic [18:12] <blindcoder> \o/ [18:42] <SMP> fuck. [18:42] <blindcoder> hm? [18:42] <blindcoder> who? [18:43] <SMP> the Crystal pkgsel re-disables all packages explicitly enabled by custom pkgsel rules [18:43] <blindcoder> hmm [18:44] <blindcoder> I think there was a reason for that [18:44] <blindcoder> I just don't remember it [18:46] <SMP> it works when I rm target/crystal/postconfig.in [18:48] <blindcoder> obviously [18:48] <blindcoder> tried activating ROCKCFG_TARGET_CRYSTAL_BUILDADDONS? [18:48] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: the reason was that CORE packages built with crystal should not depend on non-core packages [18:49] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: by building non-core packages in stage 9 only (if the option given above is enabled), this can be achieved effectively [18:50] <SMP> blindcoder: I don't want any other non-CORE stuff [18:51] <SMP> let's see how glibc-2.4 and gcc-4.1.1 work out ... [18:51] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: in default crystal config, all non-core packages are disabled, if you use the option above, then you can build non-core packages (in stage 9) [18:57] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: this is useless. it leaves all packages enabled [18:58] <blindcoder> disabled [18:59] <stf^rocklinux> hm, let me see... [18:59] <SMP> (unless they're diabled by default) [18:59] <SMP> (which isn't many) [19:00] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: maybe use O * in package selection? [19:00] <SMP> that's not a solution [19:01] <SMP> (and I don't think it'll work) [19:01] <mnemoc> it does [19:01] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: why not? I'd disable all packages, and CORE packages would later be re-enabled by crystal/postconfig.in [19:02] <stf^rocklinux> hm, seems I'm wrong... [19:03] <stf^rocklinux> add X CORE, then [19:04] <SMP> *sigh* [19:04] <SMP> this isn't the kind of attitude that gets a "release" out. let alone anything that people really *want* [19:05] <blindcoder> SMP: well, noone tells us what they want [19:05] <blindcoder> SMP: people only complain that it is NOT what they want [19:05] <blindcoder> not that I want to name names here [19:06] <SMP> come on, this is so SIMPLE [19:06] <blindcoder> yes, it is [19:06] <blindcoder> WE have a distribution [19:06] <blindcoder> WE decide how it's done [19:06] <blindcoder> if YOU don't like it, mkdir target/SMPs_great_distribution [19:07] <SMP> people use scripts/Config, they say "I want a crystal target", and I want these other four packages, thanks!" -- that's what the user-interface suggests they can do [19:08] <blindcoder> yeah, somewhere deep below the "Expert" options [19:08] <blindcoder> are they experts? [19:08] <blindcoder> maybe in picking their noses, but not in using ROCK [19:09] <daja77> >_< [19:09] <daja77> why i need to be an expert to add some fucking packages [19:10] <blindcoder> because for fucking as for adding packages you need protection [19:10] <stf^rocklinux> daja77: because of dependencies [19:10] <SMP> instead stf suggests they to "I want a crystal target and because I also want these other four packages, I have to DUPLICATE ALL OF THE CRYSTAL PKGSEL by explicitly stating "O *" and "X CORE" and then my four packages -- and I mustn't forget to also chose "also build add-on packages", because otherwise nothing of that will work" [19:10] <blindcoder> mostly from version incompatibilities with depending packages [19:10] <daja77> X $package could include the deps .. [19:11] <SMP> blindcoder: you're just trying to justify a bug. leave it alone ... [19:11] <blindcoder> SMP: and you're getting worked up over it. get to work fixing it instead if it bothers you that much. [19:11] <SMP> your attitude can't be fixed, unfortunately [19:12] <blindcoder> neither can yours, sadly [19:12] <stf^rocklinux> stop insulting each other! [19:12] Action: blindcoder goes to his corner to play some X² [19:12] <stf^rocklinux> that's getting us nowhere... [19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: there's a very specific reason why package selection is handled this way in crystal, see above [19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: not that I totally agree with it, but it has a point. [19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: I even reported it as a bug some time ago... [19:15] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: ok, then why can I use that custom pkgsel stuff in the Config script even when it will deliberately never work? [19:16] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: because noone has time to think of a better solution yet, I guess... [19:16] <stf^rocklinux> s/has/has had/ [19:16] <SMP> all I do is rm target/crystal/postconfig.in and everythink works as it should [19:17] <blindcoder> then send it as a patch to submaster [19:17] <blindcoder> and barring lengthy discussions about it it will be applied [19:17] <SMP> . o O ( "everythink" -- I must have read too many Userfriendlies ... ) [19:17] <blindcoder> add a small note why you think this should be like that and I doubt there wil be objections [19:18] <SMP> I have no idea what the side-effects are -- and apparently nobody here does, too [19:18] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: I think it's better to modify postconfig.in than completely remove it... [19:19] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: if you'd give me a few minutes, I could take a look at it... [19:19] <blindcoder> SMP: try a complete crystal build, and the side-effects will show [19:19] <blindcoder> SMP: I'd guess there won't be any [19:19] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: the only way to fix it is to effectivly remove all logic from it [19:20] <stf^rocklinux> the point with all postconfig.in stuff for crystal is that core packages cannot depend on non-core packages, as I already said. [19:20] <SMP> blindcoder: bullshit. the only logic in there deals with the pkgsel. a build proves nothing about that [19:20] <blindcoder> SMP: then runnig scripts/Config is all the test there needs to be [19:20] <blindcoder> SMP: and as I see, you've done that [19:21] <SMP> blindcoder: you don't find out about side-effects by experimentation [19:21] <blindcoder> what side-effects _could_ there possibly be? [19:22] <blindcoder> your computer blowing up? your cat getting pregnant? your neighbors head blowing up? (that'd be fun!) [19:23] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: we do by testing changes to core parts, e.g. [19:24] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: but of course we try to understand changes to core parts before they are applied. However this doesn't catch all side-effects in every case, hence the testing... [19:24] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: you don't find out about side-effects by trial-and-error. either you know what you're doing or your ask someone who does [19:24] <SMP> someone put that postconfig.in logic there for a reason [19:25] <SMP> what reason probably hasn't gone away [19:25] <SMP> if it ever existed [19:25] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: you can't expect anyone to understand every single line of source code used in desktop distro... [19:25] <blindcoder> clifford put it in [19:25] <blindcoder> if you can get a hold of him and ask him, please do [19:26] <blindcoder> you'll get a cookie for achieving the seemingly impossible [19:26] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: to repeat myself for the third time: in Crystal, non-core packages are built only in stage 9, so that core packages cannot possibly depend on them... [19:27] <stf^rocklinux> crystal core packages were meant for distribution via CD, e.g. , and non-core packages via network (as add-ons) [19:27] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: where's the logic that does this [19:27] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: in crystal/{post,}config.in [19:30] <stf^rocklinux> using pkgfilter [19:31] <SMP> yeah. you're right. took me a while to understand what it does [19:31] <stf^rocklinux> me too, until someone explained it to me [19:32] <SMP> does the custom pkgsel in scripts/config.in run before or after target/crystal/config.in ? [19:34] <stf^rocklinux> see https://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/The_ROCK_Linux_Hacking_HowTo#config.in_Call-Tree [19:34] <stf^rocklinux> it says that all *config.in files are called from scripts/config.in [19:35] <stf^rocklinux> and also in which order [19:36] <SMP> that doesn't answer my question ;-) [19:37] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: scripts/config.in runs all other *config.in files, so it's first [19:37] <stf^rocklinux> ah, wait... [19:37] <SMP> wrong [19:38] <stf^rocklinux> well, I'll have to look that up myself, by reading scripts/config.in... [19:39] <SMP> target/$ROCKCFG_TARGET/config.in is first, then the custom pkgsel, then any postconfig.in [19:40] <SMP> brb [19:40] <stf^rocklinux> yep [22:36] iceblox (i=simon@roedelkiste.net) left irc: "Why am I on irc anyways?" [23:39] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:40] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-7e269605b4a9c1be) joined #rocklinux. 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