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[10:28] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [10:51] _Ragnar_ (i=loki@216.250.77.230) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:21] <stf^rock1inux> blindcoder: pong [11:26] <blindcoder> stf^rock1inux: what were those changes you made to the wiki? [11:26] <blindcoder> stf^rock1inux: I couldn't make any sense out of them [11:27] stf^rocklinux (n=user@M1308P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #rocklinux. [11:27] <stf^rocklinux> moin [11:27] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: pong [11:27] <blindcoder> ah, yes,. moin. [11:27] <blindcoder> where are my maners :( [11:28] <blindcoder> 11:22 < blindcoder> stf^rock1inux: what were those changes you made to the wiki? [11:28] <blindcoder> 11:22 < blindcoder> stf^rock1inux: I couldn't make any sense out of them [11:28] <stf^rocklinux> there were some duplicate pages, like Changing The Package Selection and Changing the package selection [11:28] <blindcoder> ah, so why did you delete the dup instead of redirect it? [11:29] <stf^rocklinux> At least in the preview redirect does not work, so I just cleaned the duplicate pages [11:29] <stf^rocklinux> for really deleting them I'd have to be an admin [11:29] <blindcoder> ah, okay [11:30] <blindcoder> yeah [11:34] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [11:39] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [11:40] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection [11:42] stf^rock1inux (n=user@M1308P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:44] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [12:44] _Ragnar_ (i=loki@216.250.77.230) joined #rocklinux. [13:00] _BoS_ (n=bodo@dslb-088-072-041-064.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [13:00] _BoS_ (n=bodo@dslb-088-072-044-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [14:13] <th> our udev rules skip important scsi devices [14:14] <th> UEVENT[1157890068.217375] add@/block/sdc/sdc2 [14:14] <th> ACTION=add [14:14] <th> DEVPATH=/block/sdc/sdc2 [14:14] <th> SUBSYSTEM=block [14:14] <th> no node is created for this device [14:14] <blindcoder> oops [14:15] <blindcoder> th: btw, could you apply the 'apply me' journal? [14:15] <blindcoder> th: I've tested it in a full build and vmware installation [14:21] <th> i've major concerns with 2006082512411919808 [14:22] <blindcoder> oh, and you mention them now? [14:22] <blindcoder> two weeks after the patch was submitted? [14:23] <blindcoder> a month after it was put up on the roadmap? [14:26] stf^rocklinux (n=user@M1308P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection [14:27] <th> concerns have already been mentioned earlier in smng by SMP [14:27] <th> - execle("/bin/bash", "-bash", "-l", "-c", command, NULL, clean_env); [14:27] <th> + execle("/bin/sh", "-l", "-c", command, NULL, clean_env); [14:27] <th> there ist argv[0] missing [14:28] <th> so -l is propably ignored by bash [14:29] <th> which has no big impact besides the name will be wrong. [14:29] <blindcoder> ah, yeah, SMPs overly helpful, objective and constructive concerns as we love them [14:29] <th> because it still starts with "-" [14:30] <th> as far as i can remember he only stated facts. [14:30] <th> i could not see biased comments [14:30] <blindcoder> well, you can say 'This stinks' and you can say 'This stinks. Make it that way.' [14:31] <blindcoder> I rarely see the latter one from smp [14:31] <th> and if your time is only enough for "it stinks"? [14:31] <th> should shut up and not even complain? [14:32] <blindcoder> then at least you should try not to be insulting [14:32] <blindcoder> and the phrasing of smps complaints usually feel quite like that [14:32] <th> i think there is even value in criticism that has no constructive advice. [14:32] <blindcoder> well, fine, don't apply it then [14:32] <blindcoder> I'll try to straighten that stuff out next week [14:33] stf^rocklinux (n=user@M1308P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #rocklinux. [14:35] <blindcoder> not that it'd be impossible to do a fine incremental patch later [14:39] <th> perhaps we should spare this fine incremental patch. and use it on current udev [14:39] <th> i get no /dev/sd* nodes for usb devices [14:39] <th> that's pretty fatal [14:39] <th> permissions/ownership in /dev/sounds/ is 660/root:root [14:39] <th> that's pretty fatal [14:44] <th> the first works better if i copy rules.d/* from udev source to /etc/rules.d/ [14:44] <th> so does the latter [14:48] <blindcoder> then probably our rules are outdated [14:48] <blindcoder> although on my latest build [14:49] <blindcoder> dev/sound is root:sound 660 [14:49] <th> i'm talking of our last release [14:50] <th> 14:45:09 < blindcoder> then probably our rules are outdated [14:50] <blindcoder> well, that seems to be fixed already then :) [14:50] <th> i'd put it in other words [14:50] <th> udev got updated without taking care of the rules or testing [14:51] <blindcoder> *nod* [14:51] <th> so perhaps we should do a new release where users can use usb storage and hear sound. [14:51] <th> i think that's two very big showstoppers [14:52] <blindcoder> great idea. can you take care of it, please/ [14:52] <blindcoder> ? [14:56] <SMP> I don't give that warm, understanding feedback that makes you feel loved even though you fucked up big time. but I don't insult people, either. my comment on that system.init patch only either states simple facts in an entirely neutral way or asks simple questions in cases when I did not immediately understand the intention of a dubious change. [14:57] <th> heh [14:57] <SMP> and, by the way, I do hope to get an answer on these questions, because I might as well have missed something or simply not know enough about the background of that patch [14:57] <th> "that warm, understanding feedback that makes you feel loved" [14:57] <th> good one [14:58] <th> regarding the udev rules - i dont want to just copy something from udev-src and release it blindy. it should be inspected to find our mistake. [14:58] <th> s/blindy/blindly/ [14:58] <SMP> . o O ( Freudian ) [15:02] <SMP> bbl [15:07] <blindcoder> well, then do it [15:08] <blindcoder> here I don't get that error [15:08] <blindcoder> and I can't inspect errors that I don't get [15:08] <blindcoder> and I don't mean getting as in understanding [15:08] <blindcoder> SMP: well, then expect to be ignored by me if you don't like to give constructive critic [15:16] <th> blindcoder: are you able to test it on ROCK3 release? [15:19] <blindcoder> I'll grab a copy of the iso, give me an hour or two [15:20] <th> no haste [15:20] <blindcoder> oh, I still have a copy here [15:31] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [15:35] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [15:42] stf^rock1inux (n=user@M1117P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #rocklinux. [15:47] stf^rocklinux (n=user@M1308P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [15:55] <blindcoder> th: ROCK 3 rev 7770 iso [15:55] <th> yes [15:55] <blindcoder> th: /dev/sound/* has root:sound 660 [15:56] <th> i did 3 installs [15:56] <th> must be early-stage issue [15:56] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [15:58] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [15:59] <th> blindcoder: can you kill udev daemon, remove /dev/sound/, start udevd, run udevtrigger? [16:02] <blindcoder> done. recreated with root:sound 660 [16:06] <th> really strange [16:06] <th> whats your udev version? [16:07] <blindcoder> 092 1 [16:08] <blindcoder> that's the official rock 3 crystal iso [16:08] <th> yea [16:08] <blindcoder> installation using defaults [16:08] <th> same here [16:08] <th> well [16:08] <th> i extracted the gems [16:08] <th> and ran cron and postinstall [17:06] <th> so it's an issue in the booting process. [17:11] <blindcoder> well, it boots fine here [17:14] <blindcoder> just tried booting without initrd [17:14] <blindcoder> still root:sound 660 [17:49] <th> blindcoder: so how does your udevd comes up in ROCK3 without initrd? [17:50] <th> uhh /etc/initscript? [17:51] <th> lets say i did not expect this. [17:56] <blindcoder> you know, our initrd concept is not always as bad as that :) [17:57] <th> that has nothing to do with the initrd concept. [17:57] <th> it's just that /etc/initscript should do way less than it does ;) [17:58] <blindcoder> and that's where the system.init split comes into play [17:58] <blindcoder> since splitting system.init is just the first step in a long way of work [17:59] <th> yes - i do know that. [17:59] <th> and the split is needed [18:01] <blindcoder> indeed [18:03] ija_ (n=ija@84.19.218.22) joined #rocklinux. [18:21] ija (n=ija@84.19.218.122) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [18:35] owl (n=owl@193.93.28.218) left irc: "gone forever (hopefully)." [18:47] <stf^rock1inux> hi again [18:47] <stf^rock1inux> I sent a mail answering SMP's questions on the init split patch on thursday, but it looks like it didn't get through... [18:50] <stf^rock1inux> I'll resend it now. [18:56] <blindcoder> the harddisk on rl.org is full [18:56] <blindcoder> the list is dead with that [18:56] <blindcoder> clifford and daja are working on a new server [19:03] <stf^rock1inux> ic... I wonder how I should answer SMP's question in the meantime. [19:04] <stf^rock1inux> maybe send it to him privately first? [19:04] <stf^rock1inux> I don't want to post discussion in submaster... [19:08] <th> stf^rock1inux: answer him in IRC perhaps? [19:15] <SMP> stf^rock1inux: send mail to stefanp-exp-1158772249.8cf2bd@cabal1.com if you like -- I would apprechiate that [19:19] <stf^rock1inux> SMP: ok [19:23] <stf^rock1inux> th: that's an option, too. :) [19:51] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [19:55] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [19:55] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-53-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [19:55] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) joined #rocklinux. 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